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Author Topic: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?  (Read 5654 times)

fwphoto

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2010, 01:04:21 PM »
Quote
Quote
I also had the fastback version of the square-back VW (can't remember the year or model #) that was an air-cooled boxer.
 
[Full-disclosure time: I had to run to the basement for my "VW Good Book" (John Muir's How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive, a Manual of Step by Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot) to be certain.] Your Fastback was a Type III. Production (or at least, importation into USA) began with the 1968 model, I think, and ended in 1974.
That's it! It was a type III.

I've got a copy of the "Complete Idiot" book around here myself! Been a while since I had a VW, though. The first was the Type II, the I bought a brand new '74 SuperBeetle with factory sunroof, & cool chrome wheels.I added a CB (remember those?),   an 8-track or a cassette deck (can't remember which) & a bunch of other accessories. That bug stayed in the family for many years as my younger brother got it in a family trade that landed me a '74 Triumph Spitfire. My last VW broke the boxer mold with an '84 Rabbit GTI. Another great one! That was the first car I put over 100K miles before trading.

Frank W.

Offline marcmax

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2010, 01:42:11 PM »
If you really want to about boxer frankenbikes how about an R60/2 with a VW engine shoehorned in.
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Offline montmil

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2010, 03:58:59 PM »
OMG! I, too, completely forgot about my snazzy 1964 Corvair Monza convertible. Drove both the 'vair and my Triumph motorcycle through most of my undergrad days.

Regarding the flat six Corvair engine in the VW bus, I work with a goofy guy that has a VW "Westy" camper bus powered with an aluminum block, Buick V-6 with a higher geared VW tranny. Really scary at Interstate highway speeds...

My flying VW Boxer projects:







Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Dizerens5

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2010, 01:13:25 PM »
The Jowett Jupiter was a really beautiful little sports car with a 4-cyl boxer engine. Made in Britain around 1948-53. Plenty of photos on websites, try a search engine. I would love to have one but it takes a good machinist with workshop to keep one going these days - that's qualifications I just don't have....

Offline suecanada

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2010, 01:05:55 PM »
We had 2 Corvairs. The earlier one that Nader scuppered, then the 1966 Corvair Corsa which I think had 4 carbs and was a fine car. Dad never has a problem cornering either and he was something of a Stirling Moss!
Anyone comment on the Corsa, the later model design? Got over 300,000 miles on it back when we were imperial measure here in Canada!
I has a 1957 VW Bug and the 1980 Subaru. Maybe I have been drawn to boxers??
1983 R65LS - LRB still my favourite!? 1988 Honda NX250, "Toodles Too" and a Suzuki DR650, "Calypso." All stored in the "Brrrmmm Closet".

Altritter

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2010, 12:13:09 AM »
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Anyone comment on the Corsa, the later model design?

Sue, I never got to drive a Corsa because I was teaching school and not working for uncle when the 66s were introduced. If you say it was good, I gotta believe it.

My overall take on the 'Vair: The first year had suspension problems, and could be treacherous if overdriven. I seem to recall the second model year was about half-fixed. By 1963, it was a well-handling car that would easily out-corner the Beetles of that model year. (More about the Beetles later.) I can give you a benchmark regarding the Corvairs I drove: IMO, the 1964 Monza Spyder 180 hp supercharged 'Vair was very close to the Porsche 914 "Volksporsche" (the 4-cylinder 914 for sure) of the late '60s/early '70s. I don't know whether it had the top end of the 914, but I think it was just as quick in the twisties.

[Tuesday 22:00 — I stand (somewhat) corrected on one point, and thoroughly confused on another:

Correction — According to numerous web gurus, the '64 Spyder was a turbo, not a supercharge. (The Golden Hawk was a super. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! Regarding the Spyder, I'll stand corrected, but I'm by no means convinced. I've been under the engine bonnet of one, and it had more plumbing up on the manifold than any turbo I can recall. But I'll defer to the experts on that one, with one doubting question: it seems to my mechanically-ignorant senses that there would be horrendous heat problems with a turbo, six-cylinder airhead in an enclosed compartment. (Turbos required kid-glove treatment in liquid-cooled cars until the intercooler was introduced. Aside from the SCCA types and a few engineers, I don't think there were many American drivers in 1964 who knew how to treat a turbo so as to get any kind of longevity out of the engine. (To this day, I don't want a non-intercooled turbo because of the TLC it requires to prevent eventual damage from inadequate warmup and cooldown. (Again, intercoolers help somewhat.)

Confusion — The different web sites had differing opinions about the horsepower rating of the '64 Spyder. A majority view is that it was 150 hp, not the 180 that I remember. They write that the redesigned '65 had 180, up from 150 in '64. Again, my memory leans to 180 in '64, cut back to 150 in '65. (Wussing down the Spyder from a screamer to a relative whiner would be consistent with GM policy in that era. Remember the first GTO in '64? Later models were not as fast or as brutish as the '64 because Pontiac wanted to sell to older, richer buyers who might have been scared off by the '64 Goat's insane power, linked with marginal braking and so-so handling. To confuse matters further, one web guru thinks that the '64 Spyder began the model year at 150 hp, but during the model year Chevrolet juiced the engine up to 180 hp!  :-? Anyway, I ain't so certain, anymore, and there isn't a Monza Spyder down the street that I might check in order to find out.

I don't think the '64 Spyder was as fast as the 914/6 (very few of those made it to North America, I understand). My colleague in Germany (73-75) had a 914/6 that was an adrenaline rush. Like the Corvair, the 914/6 was cursed by overheating of the inner cylinders, even worse than #3 in the Beetles. I suspect it was too much engine for the enclosure, and too little air circulating over the fins, but I'm not certain. Memory is hazy, but I think he made the Autobahn run from Würzburg-München once in about 2.5 hours, and likely, considerably less. Can't remember the road distances involved, but I seem to remember that he averaged >160km/hr, point-to-point.

As for Beetles of the period: Anyone who had a Bug Type I model earlier than '67 was familiar with the outboard swing-arm rear axle's tendency to curl under the car when cornered hard. (The older brother of one of my students in 1965-66 rolled his new bug by curling the outboard axle.) My '66 originally had a crude, (apparently) dealer-installed camber compensator consisting of a pair of brackets and two heavy canvas U-straps riveted to them. The canvas ripped from impact when the car was creamed by a hit-and-run in 1985. When I restored the Bug in 1994, I installed anti-sway bars on the front, a steel-strap camber compensator on the rear, and Bilstein gas-filled shocks, front and and rear. The outdated tire design might break traction, or the car might understeer, but I don't worry much about the outside rear axle going vertical and pole-vaulting me in a turn. (The car handles so well, I wish I could find a bargain Porsche 351 engine to drop into it.)

Back to the Spyder for one more quibble: One of the web gurus stated several times that the early 'Vairs were prone to the same wheel-and-axle roll-under that the Bugs had if cornered hard. But the guy erroneously stated, more than once, that it was the *inside* wheel that would curl under. Not correct; it *has* to be the outside!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 09:37:24 PM by Altritter »

Altritter

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2010, 09:41:11 PM »
FWIW, I just made a $.02-worth correction to the preceding reply #20. It was a case of post-publication  information inducing me to set the record straight. (Rather, to confuse it further.)

Offline Motu

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 04:58:57 AM »
Forgot about the Bradford - 1,000cc flat twin.Saw this nice one yesterday.And also my Ural with the 40hp VW engine.




SCJJR65

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 06:38:38 AM »
Did anyone mention the Isetta 300 from Italy, made in the '50s with a BMW-supplied Boxer engine?  The car enjoyed a public revival of sorts in the '90s in the TV sit-com, "Family Matters".  One of the characters in the show, "Steve Urkel" (Jaleel White), played a teen nerd who drove one of these babies from time to time.  It became known as the "Erkel-Mobile".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 06:49:30 AM by SCJJR65 »

Dizerens5

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2010, 11:55:15 AM »
I could be wrong but I think the Isetta (which was a real BMW product made in Germany) did not have a boxer engine but used the 250 cc single engine from the R/25 series motorcycle. When I was a teenager in London there were quite a few of them around, along with the Heinkel which looked like a stretch-limo version of the Isetta. When there were three or four of us we used to pick up these front-opening minicars and repark them with the door right up against a wall. I guess we were not very good citizens in those days.

Dizerens5

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2010, 01:30:06 PM »
And another detail: Bob Roller on Oct 10 mentioned the Ferrari flat 12 boxer engine fitted to the 312PB race car. You can buy a lovely model, 1:6 scale, of this engine with gearbox. A very detailed model with sound effects and gearstick to cause them. I don't know who makes it but in this country it costs £600, equal to about $800 I think. See Nauticalia catalogue, www.nauticalia.com.

SCJJR65

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Re: Ever see a car with a Boxer engine?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 09:05:15 PM »
You're right, Constellation, my bad.  It was the Isetta 600 that featured the R67s 582cc Boxer engine.

Offline luxlogs

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6 cyl Boxer
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2010, 09:54:31 AM »
1974 Porsche 911 Carrera
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Offline luxlogs

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12 cyl Boxer
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2010, 09:58:03 AM »
1971 Porsche 917 12 cyl engine
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