Transmission Problems

[Bob_Roller]

Well I finally got my carbs balanced, the method of balancing them that my co-worker that runs a BMW shop out of garage recommended.

Well his method worked great, but it seems like I might have a problem with the right carb mixture seat, but it runs great.

Now to my transmission problem.

At first, the lowest gear I had was 2 nd, no neutral or first gear, I rode it around the neighborhood for about 3 miles, and then finally I could get neutral and 1 st gear.

I took it out onto a street with a 45 mph sprrd limit, and the trans shifted up to 5 th gear no problem, when I came up to a stop light after about a mile, all I could down shift to was 4 th.

Rode it about 2 miles back home shifting all the time, and still all I have is 4 th and 5 th.

I called the shop in San Diego that did the overhaul, and the mechanic that over hauled the trans, said that it was the first time he has heard anything like this.

He told me to bring the transmission back and he'll open it up to see what's wrong.  

I'm trying to avoid a drive back to San Diego.

Anybody heard any problems like this before ?  

[Bob_Roller]

Here's an update of what Ihave.

I found the left footrest 'drooped' when I re-installed and tightened it.

It was restricting the travel of the foot shifter lever.

I can rock the rear wheel with the bike on the centerstand, and shift up to 5th and back down to 1st.

Start the engine, and start moving, and I can shift all the way up to 5th gear, but I can only downshift to 4th and no lower.

A rather perplexing problem !!!

[Bob_Roller]

I've contacted Oak Okleshen of Airheads BMW club fame, from what I've told him, he is convinced that there is a problem with the transmission.

I also got in touch with the owner of the shop the did the refurbishment of the clutch and pressure plates, and he walked me through a couple of trouble shooting steps, and pretty much confirmed that the clutch is fully releasing.

There's an independent BMW / Moto Guzzi shop a few doors away from the clutch shop. The clutch shop owner went over there and told the 2 brothers that run the shop what I had, and they both said that it most likely was related to the shifter pawl spring.

Either broken, not very likely but not impossible either, as I have all of the old parts, and the spring was replaced. Or possibly somehow dislodged during re-assembly. Or maybe not installed at all !!!!

I went to the local independent shop here in Mesa, AZ., ( not the co-worker that I posted about), and they said it would be a minimum of 4 hours labor at $89 per hour to open up the trans, and fix something simple like a dislodged part, and then close it up.

So at this point in time, I plan on removing the trans this weekend, and then take it back to the shop that did the overhaul in San Diego.

Good thing I'm on vacation, otherwise, I'd be a little more upset about this situation, than I am.

[nhmaf]

I was also going to suggest the pawl spring - this sounds like some similar problems that
relate to that and/or a bent shifter fork.  I wish you luck, and hopefully small repair bill !

[Bob_Roller]

The only cost that will be incurred by me is fuel for the 800 mile trip ( figured about 18 gallons for a cost of about $55), and possibly one night's stay in a motel if necessary.

But at least I'm on vacation, so it's not too big of a deal.

If some part was left out during the overhaul, I'm going to try and get my cost refunded for having to go back out there again.

I'm not going to get ugly about it, but I will mention that I plan on contacting BMW MOA Owners News magazine, and also the monthly newsletter from the Airheads BMW club, Airmail . The company that did the work on the transmission ( Motor Works), advertises in both of those publications.

Also, Oak Okleshen  has a technical column in the Airheads newsletter, said that this is not the first time he has heard of problems arising after Motor Works has overhauled an airhead transmission.

I guess it could be worse, it could have happened on some desolate desert road at night !!!

[bpw]

Why not just ship the tranny and have them pay shipping?  I know I would rather spend the day pulling the tranny then driving.  If they are a good shop hopefully they will do something to make up for your trouble.

Ben

[Bob_Roller]

I'm hesitant to ship, as I have had some incredibly bad experiences with UPS and FedEx Ground.

UPS destroyed a package of mine worth $1800, by leaving the package outside in a day long rain storm while I was at work.

It was a nightmare to get it settled, and took over a year to get the settlement.

FedEx ground lost a shipment that was warranty replacement Koni shock struts for my car, the shipment that was lost was the bad shocks going back to Koni. So they didn't get the bad shocks in the required time frame, so my credit card was charged the manufacturer's prices for the struts plus shipping costs, and that came out to over $600. That took 7 month's to get cleared up.

I'm almost at my wits end, I emailed Oak Okleshen today about what I had, and he is still convinced it's a clutch problem.

 So here is my plan, I'm going to remove the transmission and clutch assemblies, and see if by chance I did something wrong during reassembly, or if I see something obviously wrong with the clutch. If not then take the transmission back to the shop that did the trans overhaul, also take the clutch and pressure plates back to the shop that did the work on them. They are only about 2 blocks apart.

 Hopefully one of the shops will find a problem.

If nothing is found by these shops, my only logical course would be to replace the clutch disc and pressure plates with OEM parts.

This has gotten to the point that it's getting ridiculous.

 I have to say that at this point in time I regret my decision to do an overhaul on the trans, and have the clutch reworked.

It seemed like a good idea to get it done before any catastrophic failures happened, as the bike has 80,000 miles on it.

I'm beginning to question if this bike is really worth the effort and expense anymore.

[Justin B.]

Bob, sounds a lot like the symptoms I have head described of a broken pawl spring.  The guy that rebuilt mine always replaces them AND the neutral switch - just because.  I doubt there is anything your clutch could be contributing to this as you can easily upshift without touching the clutch  Maybe make sure the allen bolt that holds the little shift lever to the tranny is tight and the lever has no burrs where it mates up with whatever it mates with inside the tranny.  Seems I remember somebody on boxerworks a long time ago with a shifting problem that turned out to be some sort of deformation on this part...

Personally, I bought a good used tranny and had my old one rebuilt (at leisure) to keep as a spare and think it would probably be a good idea for all Airhead owners to have a spare...

As far as effort and expense?  Who knows...  How much would the monthly payments be on a new one to replace it with?  And, considering they are all now computer controlled plastic-fantastics factor in what your repair costs might be once your warranty runs out...  I guess if one had enough scratch to buy a new bike every three years so it was always under warranty - that would be the way to go!  But you would be out $300-$400 every 6000 miles for the dealer service or they might weasel about warranty repairs.  Bmw of Ft. Worth told the kid that about all the maintenance he could do without voiding the warranty was oil changes...

Every time I think about buying a spanking new R1200RT I think about the dealer getting his claws in me and my mind gets "right" very quickly!

[Bob_Roller]

Justin

I'll check that tomorrow morning before I 'attack' the trans removal.

If you can't tell, I'm quite frustrated about this situation, I'm not quite sure why, as I'm usually pretty easy going with problems on the bikes.

I've got another bike, so it's not like I'm without one.

I think it's probably that I only want to do something once, and it is a bit of a job to pull the trans.

The other thing is that I paid a good sum to get these assemblies rebuilt, by shops that claim to do the best work around, well at least at this point in time, unless I did something wrong on reinstallation, one of them didn't live up to their claims.

To be continued...................................................................................

[Justin B.]

Bob, trust me, I understand completely,  BTDT!!   I re-read your posts and am a bit confused.  Are you saying that right now you can shift between 4th and 5th gear at will with no problems and just can't get it to downshift lower than 4th or did it start that way and you are now stuck in just one gear?  If you can shift between the two then I would think that would probably eliminate the pawl spring as my understanding is that if it breaks you're stuck in whatever gear you were in when it gave up the ghost...  When you move the lever by hand can you feel it "working" anything inside the box or is it pretty much smooth in both directions?

Looking at the parts listing there is a shift fork for 5th and another that covers 3d and 4th.  I wish I knew more about transmissions, I am going to attempt to do my own the next time I have one go out and maybe afterwards I'll have more insight into them...

[Bob_Roller]

Justin

Right now, if I rock the rear wheel and get the transmission into neutral, I can start up the bike, put it in 1st gear take off and shift up to 5th gear no problem.

When I try to downshift, about all I can get to is 4th gear.

I can shift between 4th and 5th gear no problem in either direction.

Every once in a while, I can get down to 3rd, about once out of 30-40 shifts while moving.

No matter what, I need to remove the transmission, and go from there.

I posted this on Boxerworks, and Duane Ausherman posted about his method of testing the transmission out of the bike, I'm going to try that tomorrow first thing after getting it out.

And procede from there.

Any idea what kind of a wear pattern to look for on the clutch disc or pressure plates, for a dragging clutch ?

[Justin B.]

Really about the only wear to be normally seen (unless you let a disc get down to the rivets) is some grooving, heat checks (little surface cracks), and hot/blue spots.

So, you can actually sorta shift it, with the engine off you can rock it and get it down to 1st gear, shift up through the gears fine, between 4th and 5th fine, but gotta shut off to get it back down to 1st OR into neutral.  That is a strange one.  When you pull in the clutch does it indeed disengage?

[Frank_M]

The pawl spring busted on mine years back when I was in 2nd gear. I was unable to shift in either direction. The mechanic who later replaced it said tipping the bike on its side will realign the broken parts of the spring and allow a shift to a higher gear (or lower). I don't know if this helpful, but I thought it worth mentioning as it seems it might serve as a diagnostic as to whether it is the spring that is possibly the source of the problem.

[Bob_Roller]

Justin

I called the shop that refurbished the clutch, and the owner told me to get the bike on the street, start it, and put it in 1st gear and with the clutch lever pulled in rev the engine up.

He said if the clutch was dragging the bike should try to move, and also after about a minute or so of doing this, if the clutch was dragging, you should be smelling that over heated 'brake' smell.


I did this for 2 minutes, and the bike didn't move and no overheated lining smell.

With the engine shut down, transmission in gear, I can pull the clutch lever in, and push the bike like it is in neutral, no extra effort required.

The first indication that I had a problem, was after I installed the clutch and transmission back in May.

I could not get the proper clutch free play, I had the adjuster bolt at the transmission all the way in, and the cable adjuster at the lever at it's maximum, and I had about 10 mm free-play at the lever.

I went to NAPA and got an adjustment bolt for the transmission that was about 4-5 threads longer, and then I could get the clutch free-play adjusted correctly.

Yesterday I readjusted the clutch cable to where there was minimal free-play and no change at all.

I guess this will teach me to have 2 major components redone at the same time !!

I'm going to use Duane Aushermans method of testing the transmission out of the bike that he's got on his website, it's pretty simple and straight forward.

If it passes that test, I'm tempted to order OEM pressure plates and clutch disc, and go from there.

I guess I'll have to see what I find when I get it apart.

[Bob_Roller]

I've got the transmission and clutch out of the bike.

Not too bad of a time 1 hour 35 minutes, I should be getting good at it !!!

Here's what I found on the clutch disc, at best there is 10% contact if the clutch face to the pressure plates, and that is both sides.

Also there are about 3 blue / brown spots on the pressure plates, like an over heated area.

I'm going to put the swing arm and wheel back on so I can move the bike around in the garage, seeing it's going to be sitting for a while.

Next is to test the transmission with Duane Aushermans method from Boxerworks forum.