A strange interest in 3rd wheels is growing

[nhmaf]

Maybe my wife would be more interested in riding with me, certainly Barley (my Golden Retriever) would
love it, and I could also ride a bike to visit my customers more often with the increased cargo space if I had
a side hack rig.   I've been contemplating whether I might try to put it onto little Tillie (R65LS) or find another bike
to be the "mule" - perhaps find a non-abused R100RT around - having the extra power and the oil cooler could
be useful in that regard.    I've also been thinking that the Telelever front suspension on the R1100R or R1200C
(would have to take off too much plastic on an R1100RT) would probably handle the loading of the suspension
better than the old telescopic forks, without having to do a leading link front end conversion.

Then when it comes to sidecars themselves... Well, I really like the looks of the Cozy Rocket, which looks like the
old Steib 350.  But ScottinTex seemed to indicate that there were some weaknesses in that rig on his R65 ?
Having a brake (even  a drum brake) such as found on a Ural sidecar or Velorex might be a very good thing too,
though since I've never ridden a sidehack, I'm not sure how well the tracking under braking conditions works without
a brake on the sidecar's wheel ?     I check out the Armec sidecar website (with the tilting/leaning frame connection
between bike and sidecar) but the car looks too narrow and things sit way too low to the ground in all the photos to
make it up/down our dirt road without hitting and dragging.

Interested in whatever thoughts/ideas you have to share...   Of course, it would be cool to have a /2 conversion side hack
rig, but I am thinking of something a bit easier on the checkbook/wallet, and perhaps something I won't mind racking up
mileage on, running in the rain, etc. while transporting precious cargo, or thousands of $$ of electronics equipment.
 

[Tim_McGee]

The best bike to have for pulling a hack is an R90 if you can find a good one. More torque than the R100 important when your pulling a hack around.

Tim

[NC Steve]

Mike, I can steer you towards 3 different Moto Guzzi hack rigs if you're interested, including a Convert 2-speed auto tranny model that's for sale by a lifelong Convert addict & spotless. Now that would be a sweet ride!
Let me know and I'll PM you the links tonight.

Also, any interest in an '05 Ural 750 w/disc brakes and "real" electrics?
Highly motivated seller... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[nhmaf]

Hi Steve,

I've thought about the Ural bikes/sidecars, and though they do seem to be decent product, particularly
the later model years, I think that the quality of the sidecar is better than that of the bike, no disrespect
intended.   I'm not sure whether I am a Ural rider or not, though I think that the strength of the sidecars
is unsurpasses.   I was thinking 'BMW' as the mule as it would also mean that I'd only have to have (1) set of
idiosyncrasies to keep in mind, special manuals, tools, etc. to keep around - you get the drill.   But, that
doesn't mean that is the only way to go, either !   It would be coolest to have a BMW-powered rig to ride to
rallies, and local club rides, I think.

I've always had sort of a 'closet' fascination with MotoGuzzis, and I've seen some nice old Eldorados hauling sidecars
around at different times.   I wonder how much BMW-knowledge is transferrable to them ?   They do have the dry clutch
as well, I believe - I wonder how they are with respect to splines ?  

I had thought that if I take the plunge to make this a winter project, but I suppose if the planets align and I find the
right rig already assembled....

[thrang]

Combo's are great fun, but you do end up with all the disadvantages of a car, and still get wet!

However any 1980's Guzzi Cali will make a good sidecar tug but it will not be as reliable as a Beemer of the same vintage.
The Urinal's are hods of fun especially if you get one with the reverse gearbox, and if you know your way round an airhead they are similar enough in design to maintain with out to much head scratching.
Me I'd take Tim's advice and look for a tidy R90, or a late model R100 mated to a Urinal chair. Don't know about the oilheads as I've never seen on with a chair

Thats my tuppence worth
Tony

[NC Steve]

PM to you, NH Mike.

[scottyintex]

The sheet metal on the Cozy is a bit thin. Where the sidecar tub bolted to the cradle/frame...two U bolts, two regular bolts..I got stress cracks on every bolt hole. The wall or bulkhead with the storage compartment door also broke the wield at the bottom. The bulkhead then started to flex causing yet another stress crack. The fix was wield the crack shuts, then wield two 3/16 plates across the sidecar where the bolts go in, front and back. Then wield the bulkhead down again. The U bolts were bolted to a steel tube that was part of the cradle the tub sat on. I wielded a flat 3/16 strip on top of the tube  where the U bolts attach with holes drilled in it for the bolts to go through. So, it now has two steel plates bolted together. One on the cradle tube.............. one inside the bottom of the sidecar. Now it would have been cool if all this had been done before the sidecar was painted. But while I was doing all this I had the bottom and inside of the sidecar coated with pickup bed liner.  So, now with a few modifications I have a rock solid sidecar............I think. The Cozy can be a cool sidecar but needs a little help. I sent a picture of the sidecar being put on. Look at the bottom of the sidecar there you can see one of the two U bolts and see that the sheet metal bottom has already buckled from being bolted down. Then fast forward 1000 miles of bouncing around and you have stress cracks. But those 3/16 plates are not going to crack on me.
      

[scottyintex]

This shot shows the back two bolts that hold the sidecar tub to the cradle.......resting on two big cylinder shaped rubber blocks. These stress cracked too and a 3/16 inch metal plated was wielded on the inside bottom of the sidecar. All of these had metal washers but they [/img]did little to stop the stress cracks.

[scottyintex]

here is the end result

[nhmaf]

Much Appreciated, Scotty !

From what I see on the Cozy web page, the standard car/wheel doesn't have any brake, either,
is this correct ?    How is the tracking under braking with your improved setup ?
Maybe those folks in India have to stretch their metal supplies too far to do a decent job of reinforcing
mounting points - for all the hoopla about their history going back to the early 30s, it doesn't show
that they've learned any basic mechanical engineering practices/or taken any strength of materials courses.
I'm glad that you've been able to make it work - the end result looks beautiful !
 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[SCJJR65]

Yeah, I've been thinking that when I finally get my R1200C Classic that I might just keep Britta and convert her into a sidecar rig!  That would give me some incentive to hang on to her, since I've also wanted to own a hack, but never thought I'd be in a position to do so.  Seeing the first class job Scotty has done on his rig has really gotten me to do some serious thinking!  

[scottyintex]

 Yep, your correct there is no sidecar brake but it brakes ok and there isn’t a problem with the sidecar tracking when the brakes are suddenly slammed on. The sidecar tracks, very well, handles very well.  I have been told by several who have sidecars that my R65 handles better than many of  the other beemers. It does have a custom made tripe tree that moved the forks forward to make it steer easier. My cycle is two inches longer than a normal 1980. The Cozy is a bit.........cozy or small. It’s perfect for the dog, grand kids............my wife is a ok fit. I think my son in law felt  squeezed but he is a big boy. Makes a very good street/urban bike........... a ok highway bike.  There are no problems staying up with the thin traffic in my town or the much heaver traffic in Austin. The sidecar does pull the top end speed down. Going into Austin against a strong headwind..... the steep hills pulled me down to 55 mph that was with maybe 70 pounds of junk stuffed into the sidecar. I weight 165 pounds.  On the flats there is no problem with speed.  I do most of my riding in town, she is a daily rider..... errands, grocery store.......shoot into the big city ever now and then.... cruise the back roads ever now and then. For me, the light loads I tend to carry......damn fine bike.

[Dick_Stilton]

Dick here.

Interested in this thread as I am thinking of adding a sidecar to the R65 and passing the bike on to my wife for carting our young son arround. No idea where to start though. Someone willing to advise?

Cheers  [smiley=beerchug.gif]

Dick

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Lot's of training for the wife.

A sidecar rig is an entirely different vehicle than a bike or a car.

Great fun, but the operator HAS to WANT a sidecar on their bike.

I would never build a rig on a post '69 BMW frame, but plenty have been.  
Sub-frames and modified front-ends are pretty much a requirement.  The subframe on a Type 247 is barely adequate for solo use.  No way should it be asked to hold up a sidecar and related stresses as well.  
At the very least it should be welded to the main frame and cross-bracing within the subframe is recommended as well.


Here is a current thread on the subject at Boxerworks: http://www.boxerworks.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=206423&t=206423

Remember, your son is going to be riding in this.

[scottyintex]

  The R65 makes a great .....safe sidecar rig. With a disk brake and more power it makes a better, safer sidecar hack than the lower hp, pre 1969 /2 bikes. Within that thread one will find folks who have had sidecars on post 1969 rigs for many years and many thousands of miles with no problems; nor was there a single person there who had frame troubles.  Before I put a sidecar on my R65,  I talked to many who had sidecars, on all types of BMW’s. I never... ever ....ran in to anyone who had frame problems. The only comment I heard against putting a sidecar on my rig was that it was a bit underpowered. And that is true......but given the environment within which I operate ............. it is no problem. I haul my wife, grand kids and dog,  feel they are perfectly safe or I would not do so. If you have any doubts........... talk to the to the folks who have sidecars on their newer BMW’s. I think  Rob is correct in saying some changes are prudent,  but many will tell you they are not needed.  I do have a beefed up triple tree and a slight modification to the frame. But post 1969 BMW’s will make  great .....safe sidecar rigs and there are thousand of them out there. Talk to the folks who have had sidecar rigs for many years. Talking to someone who doesn't have a sidecar....... about sidecars is sort of like asking a virgin about sex. As for training I started riding cycles when I was 58.  Put a sidecar on at 61 ...........had no problems...if ya can teach this old dog a new trick......can't be too hard.