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Author Topic: 860 Kit  (Read 1848 times)

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2020, 02:41:55 PM »
Nearly 500 mile and she is loosened up. The starter can't whiz her over like 650, but it turns rather than coughing! Starting has never been an issue, but there is not a lot in reserve for this kit if there was a problem.

The suspension moves under acceleration now and if I was cruel, a wheelie might happen in second but I have some respect. Much nicer merging down the slip road onto the the A1 (interstate) and I don't feel harassed by the lorries. 650 was OK if revved, but a bit like my first car - not enough to be safe.

No pinging with 97 fuel and lead replacement/stabiliser. Plugs are white, but piston tops are black. No black smoke and no signs of lean 'hoover noises'. I will balance and set the idle mixture again soon.

7th, 8th and 9th gears need to appear. I really can't change fast enough to make full use of 650 gearing on the road and opening the throttle at 70 brings the front up to overtake very quickly in 5th at about 4000 RPM.

There is no more vibration than before. Fuel consumption is the same. No downsides apart from the cost  :P
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8923
  • ? GMT -7 Hours
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2020, 09:08:14 PM »
No replacement for displacement !!!
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS ?
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2020, 01:31:54 PM »
Balanced (CarbOnBal Arduino project) and mixture tweaked. A definite snarl above 4,000RPM and very 'revvy'. Clutch spline lubed, adjusted and idle set a little higher.

Unlike my XT500 capacity increase which made a thumper into a BIG thumper, this is more subtle. Yes "No replacement for displacement" but you would not notice in idling or very low down torque, just a big helping of extra from 2,000 RPM up. Which makes sense for a now very over-square engine.

0-60 I guess is about 6 seconds changing at 4,500 RPM. It would be 4 seconds if I didn't have to change gear  ;D
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline wilcom

  • Posts: 1485
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2020, 01:55:44 PM »
Both my R65's will upshift clutchless just like a Jap bike. Nothing to detect other than an RPM change. Pre-load and dip the throttle ((((BANG)))
Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
1982 BMW R65LS 
past:
1979 R65
1980 R65
1982 R80RT
1974 R90/6
1972 R75
1964 R50/2
19xx R27
ZX-11

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2020, 12:57:11 PM »
A whole return trip to work (50 miles) with no crunches   8-)

If I don't think and just 'do' then all is good. the odd clutchless change happened - I feel all liberated now  ;D

Where are my rainbow gloves......

Engine (as posted above, thankyou) is properly zooming now run-in. The brakes (twin disc) are indeed 'adequate' when 860. Hitting 6,000 in 4th has the required 'millenium falcon' effect, hitting the brakes immediately afterwards is still exciting, but not in the same way  :o
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 01:00:05 PM by dogshome »
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2020, 01:06:16 PM »
500 miles and definitely run in. Oil change tomorrow.

There is a vibration at around 2,800 RPM but nothing below and no buzzing higher up. It's a power pulse/engine room sort that goes away on light throttle and is quickly gone-through in any gear.

The suspension reacts under power where there was nothing as a 650. A lot quicker and I am not worried about merging on the A1 with the 60MPH restricted HGVs now.

Tickover is now very positive and there is no sign of slowing, cutting or instability. Rock solid.

I'm not sure who's idea a 650 (or 450) was, but it wasn't a good one. Like your Escort 1100, Capri 1300 or Vauxhall Insignia 1.8 - Might look good on paper, but on the road. Eeek!. For my American friends, think Cadillac with 4 cylinder engine or any standard HD from the last 50 years to about 2000 :D

WHAT will we do with the gearing? Pulling away from cars at 70 is great fun, but the sufficiency of revs at 90 isn't!
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline wilcom

  • Posts: 1485
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2020, 02:01:46 PM »
Quote

WHAT will we do with the gearing? Pulling away from cars at 70 is great fun, but the sufficiency of revs at 90 isn't!

Tony Smith has the same conversion as you . He also has a taller rear drive. I'm not sure if he installed the taller rear drive, but he would be a excellent  resource if he has installed it.
Joe Wilkerson
Telephone man with a splash of Data
Menifee, CA

Present:
1984 BMW R65LS "Herr Head"
1982 BMW R65LS 
past:
1979 R65
1980 R65
1982 R80RT
1974 R90/6
1972 R75
1964 R50/2
19xx R27
ZX-11

Offline Tony Smith

  • Posts: 2274
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2020, 05:51:56 PM »
Quote
No replacement for displacement !!!


Or, as Carol Shelby put it: "there ain't no substitute for cubes baby."
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Tony Smith

  • Posts: 2274
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2020, 06:02:36 PM »
The final drive from an R75 significantly drops revs whilst retaining a lively nature. I have also (briefly) run the final drive for m an R100RS - it was not a happy motorcycle.

I think the final drive from an R80 might be worth looking at - I do not know the ratio offhand but provided it is close to the R75 ratio it should be happy.

Your Speedo of course becomes inaccurate, curable with strips of tape in the appropriate places, and/or a GPS Speedo.

Some time back I opened negotiations with Speed but to fit a GPS mechanism to an R65 instrument can. I recall they thought it was doable and I got as far as buying a dead Speedo for the project, but then other things intervened.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline mrclubike

  • Posts: 1437
  • Jungheinrich Master Tech
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2020, 12:32:57 AM »
You definitely want at least a 37/11
I know it works very well even with the 650cc barrels
The speedo isn't really off a lot but it is off.
I am using one out of a early R75/6
I like the early style finals better but just use what you can find in good shape
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 12:33:54 AM by mrclubike »
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2020, 06:59:05 AM »
Finding one at reasonable money that isn't worn out is going to be a challenge. I can understand going too high will make it lug - which is exactly what is doesn't do now, but could as a 650 on fast road inclines.

I can cruise at 70 fine (85 indicated!) but a bit buzzy above that. The speedo reads 10 to 15MPH over at any speed over 25 anyhow, so that won't be a problem.

I'll keep my eyes open, I can't think of any reason someone would want to down gear (not many side cars about and GS isn't an off road weapon any more). So I expect there is more demand for higher ratios.

The engine is much transformed. I referred to it as a lawn mower (sorry!) at work as the response (and noise) was similar. She has a growl and gets up and behaves like a motorcycle should now  :)
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit Battery
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2020, 05:33:28 PM »
As 650, the starter would spin the engine over hot or cold. As a higher compression 850, it's more of a nudge than a spin, even hot. She starts, but I expect one frosty morning the nudge will not be enough.

Now I notice later machines have a much sturdier battery. Mine is typically 100CCA, the larger ones in the 300CCA range. The battery trays seem completely different, although only one dimension changes.

I had the tray out recently for spine lube and although solid it has little paint left. So I'm happy to chop it up a bit to make the larger battery fit. Before the tinsnips come out and it all goes pear shaped, any advice or previous mess up anyone wants to share  :-[
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 05:34:43 PM by dogshome »
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2020, 12:53:59 PM »
I measured and fitted a 220CCA battery which kicks her over properly. If I was doing a rebuild on 860, I would modify things to get the bigger battery in. The 20AH size with the conversion is a bit marginal. Several mods required to squeeze it in though!

The 650 barrels were in great shape, but are obviously smaller and lower compression by design. My mate reckons his 1000 was like two 500 singles having a dispute at idle, the 860 has some of that. Rock steady at 1100 RPM but the pistons are making their individual presence felt. His 800 he says is much smoother and probably the ideal size (more square ratio). 

I didn't balance anything, but felt no play at all in either the little or big ends. The cam followers were perfect. The bore and little ends were like new. Didn't grind the valves as the seats were also good. A couple of swipes to make them grainy perhaps, but it would have made no difference.

I'm on synthetic now 20/50W which she likes. The Keihan muffler I bought second hand are brilliant, but the chrome (Campbells?) ones I had on were much louder and would have been quite intimidating with the 860 :)     
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2020, 12:05:23 PM »
Something I have noticed in the cold weather is the change in choke control. As a 650, full choke was required and flooding was almost impossible. With the added draw on the straw shall we say, she is easily overchoked. Unless freezing, full choke causes splutters and poor starting. No chake and a small amount of throttle is normal now.

I might make the jet for the choke smaller, but to be honest it's just a case of re-learning.
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Posts: 116
Re: 860 Kit
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2020, 01:53:57 PM »
Scratch that. the dodgy plug was the issue, choking is fine  :embarassed:

However....

The 1,000 KM break in is a little ambitious. With a few more miles/thrash under the bridge, the old girl is transformed. I rarely go near WOT or over 5,000 RPM but did last night to get around a lorry. The nose lifted, intake roar increased (in 5th) and I was looking at the lorry's lights in my mirrors in a very respectable time. The speedo said [SLOW DOWN] so I did.

As a 650 I compared her to a 250. That is about right. I can image the 450 is indeed comparable to a 125.

I understand squish, forged pistons, porting, carb sizes etc, but this conversion is absolutely spot on. Pulled the plugs (the replacements) tonight and they are perfect. I've avoided lugging the motor (and will continue to do so) but if you want that 'Harley' moment in town, it is there. I keep to premium gas and put small amounts of lead replacement in, but it doesn't seem to care in winter.

Forecast is 9C and no rain tomorrow, so off to work on the bike  :tekst-toppie:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 01:56:00 PM by dogshome »
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O