The thread where I ask questions about my new R65L

[misterpepper]

Question 1: Both front rotors are worn to the point of needing to be replaced. I'm staring down about a $500 nut to replace both rotors and pad sets. This seems like an ideal time to consider an upgrade. What should I do? Do I go ahead and get new EBC (pretty much the only ones I can find) rotors and pads? Can I swap brakes off a different model airhead to improve braking or reduce unsprung weight? Does anybody swap just the rotors, not the carriers? Is there another brand I should consider other than EBC?

[Tony Smith]

Motobins will sell you new Italian copy rotors for a lot less than that.

Metalgear will sell you new rotors only (getting the old rivets out is not hard and you use high tensile bolts in their stead).

The 4pot Brembos fitted to late K series and early Oilheads have the same bolting pattern as our F08s but have different centering - you need to machine either the calipers or the forks (or make up an adapter plate - which is probably the preferred method) in order to center them over the discs.

To go to 4-pot calipers you will need (at least) a 17mm master cylinder.

I have bought the calipers and the master cylinder kit but have not yet fitted. In fact I presently run a single F08 on a cast iron rotor with "rubber" covered braided stainless steel brake lines. At present I am sufficiently happy with the braking to not be too bothered with setting up the 4-pot calipers. In fact If I really want more braking I will probably simply rebuild some old ATE calipers, and use a 13mm master cylinder, which would be a whole lot less bother than setting up the 4-pots.

Braided steel lines are the biggest single improvement I have ever experienced in a braking system, and for $40 it is a bargain improvement.

[montmil]

Part of the equation may involve how much time you wish to invest in fettling the brakes and associated components, your personal wrenching skills, amount of time involved and available -both in the workshop and bike downtime- and that ol' trap that begins with, "Well, since I'm already this far..."

EBC brake rotors are a known entity as are their brake pads. No questions regarding quality and performance. As the bike's front brakes handle close to 70 percent of available stopping power, these components are critical safety issues.

Braided stainless brake lines will add to braking power. Suggest 'organic' brake pads as many of the metallic hi-perf pads will wear the stainless steel rotors at a higher than normal rate. The EBC rotors have a different drilled pattern that all but eliminates the OEM grooved disc syndrome.

Let us know what your decision is. Post up a photo of the end results. We all can drool!

[misterpepper]

I think I have the "grooved disc syndrome," based on how scalloped my rotors are. Stopping power seems okay with the Brembos, but I'll look into the other options mentioned. I'm not afraid of wrenching (I currently have 2 FJ40 restorations taking up most of my garage). Here's a few pictures of the LS.

[Matt Chapter]

I'm gonna through in a plug for <ruffles papers> Spiegler.  I've been extremely happy with the semi floating rotor conversion they did for me.  Of course I have a single rotor on the front.

[misterpepper]

Okay, looking at my options so far:
New EBC rotors are $206/ea, shipped. That works out to around $500 when you factor in the cost of pads.
Motobins Grimeca rotors are $143/ea (currency conversion) before shipping, so about $100 savings over EBC.
Metalgear disc only (no carriers) are $202/ea before shipping and hardware needed to mount them to the carriers.
Spiegler is $240/ea per converted rotor, and I have to pay shipping both directions. But I end up with semi-floating rotors, and hopefully new rotors in the future will be cheaper.

I think I can rule out a swap to dual 4-pot calipers, since I can live with the stopping power I have now, and with better pads should hopefully end up with better stopping power. I may be interested in a single disc 4-pot conversion, since stopping power should be about on par with what I have now, I wouldn't necessarily need to change my MC, and it would reduce cost and weight. Dual discs do look better.

[mrclubike]

FYI
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1034
You can add these into the mix they bolt directly up with no modification.
(I used this very caliper on my R65)
They are the standard Brembo FO8 that use a 38 mm dia piston instead of the special 36mm that BMW specified.
Since the are a standard part they are 1/3 the cost
The larger Dia. will also give you more leverage.  
You can also shop the other Brembo calipers on this site also

Honestly I have a 38mm Brembo FO8 ,single rotor and Speigler SS line pushed with a 12mm MC and it stops very well.  

[Bob_Roller]

I had the rotors on my '82 LS converted to semi-floating a few years ago by Spiegler .
I removed the old rotors before shipping them .
Also, at the time, if you spent $500 or more, return shipping was no charge, I got a set of their flex stainless line kits, for about $140 if I remember correctly .
I believe also, that you can replace the rotors with the Spiegler conversion yourself, you don't have to send them in again .

I also have a set of EBC rotors on my '81 R65, and their ' organic ' brake pads, I have not seen any appreciable increase in dry braking, but wet braking was greatly increased .

[misterpepper]

My calipers are fine for now (as long as I am keeping the same diameter rotor), but hopefully this information will be useful to someone else.

Is going with Spiegler worth the extra cost? Right now I'm leaning either EBC or Spiegler. I will get new brake lines after I decide whether to get new handlebars or not, since the length may need to change. Full disclosure: I'm leaning towards going scrambler or street tracker.

[Red_Hen]

Very attractive R65LS!

I vote for spiegler floating rotors - they work so well! The brake lines are red and everything about this company is good quality.  I prefer theirs over EBC.

Expensive for sure but what's your life worth to you?

[montmil]

Expensive for sure but what's your life worth to you?

 [smiley=whistling.gif] No offense intended to ya Ken, but that sounds just like a life insurance salesman pushing for a higher commission! Indeed, my younger brother, by just 11.5 months, lives by his credo that, "If it costs more, it's got to be better". Maybe. Maybe not.

[misterpepper]

Question 2: How much smoking from the left cylinder is acceptable? I am getting some smoking around the exhaust nut, but I hear some smoking from the lower cylinder (when using the sidestand) is normal, because oil drains into the combustion chamber. I haven't done a compression test yet, but I will soon. I have no idea how many miles the bike has on it -- I am the 4th owner and am told the odometer stopped working before the 3rd owner purchased it, although it seems to be working now. Odo shows around 3k miles, but the brake disks have a lot more wear than that, although the tires appear to be possibly original and are only maybe half worn. I have yet to inspect the driveshaft splines. I guess what I'm asking is at what point should I consider a rebuild, considering I don't know the history of the engine? Or what tests should I do to determine if a rebuild is necessary?

[Bob_Roller]

You shouldn't get any smoke from the exhaust nut .

There is a metal seal that's supposed to be under the nut, it may be missing, or the nut is not tightened corectly .

The exhaust nuts are known to be issues wuth these bikes, if an anti-seize type compound is not applied to the threads .

It's quite common for the nut to seize onto the threads on the cylinder .

If you can't get the nut to either loosen, or it stops after moving a bit, cut the nut off, or you'll be removing the cylinder heads and having the threads repaired .

I'd perform a compression check, before considering an overhaul of the engine .

The top end may need overhaul, if the bike has accumulated say in excess of 90,000 miles .

'81 and '82 model year bikes had issues with valve recession, don't know whay year your bike is .

The lower end of these engines are quite robust and usually don't need much attention, unless the engine was abused .

There is a date of manufacture molded into the side wall of the tires, it will look something like this 0415, which would be the fourth week of 2015 .

It's your call on how old of tires you want to ride on .

[Barry]

It will definitely smoke out of the left pot if routinely parked on the side stand. Even if you don't, for some bizarre reason the left pot seems to be favoured by oil from the breather despite the breather pipes being directed to both carbs.

If you find low compression on the left pot even though the bike is relatively low mileage then it might only be a gummed up rings from being in storage.  

It's hard to pin down mileage from wear. Old tires are difficult to date because before 2000 the date code didn't indicate which decade they were made.  Did that tread pattern even exist when the bike was new. Other things to show signs of wear are foot peg rubbers and the rear wheel splines.  On the front discs it's normal for them to groove even at relatively low mileage but if they are down to minimum thickness that doesn't suggest very low mileage.

[misterpepper]

Brake rotors are below min thickness in the grooves, but I would need a micrometer to see just how far below. Hard to tell with just calipers. I will buy an exhaust nut wrench so I can either check to see that all the parts are assembled correctly with the exhaust, or snug things up a bit. I tried to find a date code on the tires, but couldn't. There weren't any obvious 4 digit codes that ended in anything this century, so maybe the tires are pre-2000 then. All I know is they're coming off, because they are unsafe. Footpegs and grips show wear, but appear to be the original parts. I have no idea how fast they should wear. Is there anything I can do to free up stuck rings (assuming I have some) short of pulling the jugs? Like pour some marvel Mystery oil down the spark plug holes? I haven't had the valve covers off yet to even adjust the valves. It doesn't seem to be making much power, but I attribute that to the fact that the carbs are probably gummed up. It could be a bad coil I guess. Next week I will go through the carbs and give it a tuneup and see if that makes any difference. Both cylinders seem to be running evenly hot and nothing sounds out of whack. Hopefully a compression check shows everything to be in order.