Electrics help

[peteremc]

Brilliant, thanks Monte. Pictures and all.

And yes, I strayed just a little too far from home. The bike stopped about 7 blocks from home - and it's all up hill from there. It looked very strange sitting in the middle of the flatbed tow truck.

Thanks again

[montmil]

 [smiley=beerchug.gif]. Pleased to assist.

[peteremc]

Reporting back as promised....

OK, so step 1 was to check the battery. The local workshop has far more sophisticated equipment than I have and the initial reading was something like “Bad produce – Replace”. However, on charge for the day it reached about 14 V and looked healthy. Must’ve just been that I had drained it completely. So, I have a live battery (so far).

Step 2 was to source a GEN light. Visit to the local bike wreckers was successful. After listening to what I needed and scratching his head, the owner disappeared down one of those dark alleyways of racks of parts and re-emerged minutes later holding exactly what I needed (2 Amp, bare, incandescent warning light), handed it to me and said “No charge. Just tell people I’m a good bloke”.

So, I’ve cut a piece of aluminium strip, drilled holes of appropriate size to mount the strip to the bike and to mount the light to the strip, installed some connections on the existing wires to reach and then cannibalized an old LED light for a red casing and it fitted over the top perfectly. All seems to be working and good to go. Does everything it should. Glows at idle and fades to nothing with increasing revs.

Returned to my local workshop this morning for a verdict on the charging capability and came up with about 13.2V at about 3,000 - 4,000rpm. The verdict? Not great but manageable. Run without the headlight on will save power.

Also, this bike is very much for local use and I have installed leads to the battery so whenever it is parked, I can plug it in to charge, so that every time I take off, I can do so with a full battery.

By putting this out there I’m still fishing for comments, advice, observations from those who know a lot more than I ever will.

Cheers

[Tony Smith]

Reporting back as promised....


Returned to my local workshop this morning for a verdict on the charging capability and came up with about 13.2V at about 3,000 - 4,000rpm. The verdict? Not great but manageable. Run without the headlight on will save power.

You still have a problem ad 13.2 volts will not properly charge the battery sadly.

I'd start with the simple things, fit a new regulator and review all the wiring from the alternator. Whilst doing that have a look at the brushes and if they are getting a bit worn down - replace.


After that there is a test procedure to diagnose whether you are buying a new stator or a new diode board, if your manual doesn't have the procedure in it I will photocopy the relevant pages from mine and email them.

[georgesgiralt]

Peteremc,
You have a charging system not producing enough juice to charge the battery.
You have to zero on the culprit.
I would charge the battery as good as I can, then install it on the bike and out a voltmeter on the battery. Right at it.
Then, remove the plug from the regulator and start the bike.
You will have the voltage at the battery going below the value it has before the bike started.
Then put a wire on the regulator plug between the D+ and DF wires. This way, you force the alternator to gives you all the power it can. Play with the throttle up to 4000 RPM. The voltage should go above 16 V (do not let it go above  this value or you risk frying something on the bike).
If you can reach 16 V easily, the regulator is at fault. If not, there is some other flaw somewhere.
Please try and report back. We'll help you from there.

[Bob_Roller]

You reside in a salt water coastal area, is corrosion a big issue there

As time permits, you may want to go through the wiring harness, separate the connectors and check for corrosion, security of the ' pins ' in the connector .

The 12vdc output of the diode board goes to the positive terminal on the starter solenoid, then to the battery on the positive cable from the battery .

This connection has probably never been disturbed since the bike left the factory, again check for corrosion .

Also a few members have found corrosion on the battery cables just under the insulation at the battery, when they stripped the insulation back they found the cable quite corroded .

I've resided in a dry desert for 24 years and corrosion is something I just don't see anymore .

[Tony Smith]

Peteremc,

Then put a wire on the regulator plug between the D+ and DF wires. This way, you force the alternator to gives you all the power it can. Play with the throttle up to 4000 RPM. The voltage should go above 16 V (do not let it go above  this value or you risk frying something on the bike).
 

Dammed if I could remember that this morning and didn't have time to look it up before heading off. If it isn't the regulator and is not a simple high resistance in one of the harness connectors then the next likely suspects are the brushes (cause they are so cheap and an under-voltage in the rotor will affect output) or a failed winding the stator. The Bosch alternator is a 3 phase alternator which means it is very easy to test because you have three components you can directly compare with each other. Measure the resistance of each phase (the three spade terminals on the front of the stator) to ground - if one is wildly different to the others you have found the culprit.


P.S.  Peter. I have a spare Stator and a spare diode board you are welcome to borrow for testing purposes, sadly I can't sell them as they are spares fro our three airheads, but at least if need bee they can be borrowed to keep you mobile until your own replacements arrive. If you need a new regulator a Bosch RE55 regulator from Ashdown Inghrams will work perfectly - don;'t worry about it being only two pins where as the oriignal is three pin - the missing pin is only an earth and the stator is already solidly earthed,but if it is a concern you can always run a wire to earth - I may have a working regulator in my spares, unfortunately I also have at least one dead one and can't tell which is which.

[mrclubike]

13.2 is OK if the battery is still charging
But after you ride it for an hr or so it should be getting to about 13.8 volts
A clamp on amp meter could tell you if that is what is happening or not

[Tony Smith]

13.2 is OK if the battery is still charging
But after you ride it for an hr or so it should be getting to about 13.8 volts
A clamp on amp meter could tell you if that is what is happening or not

I took the 13.2 to be done on a freshly charged battery (using a shop charger), but agree an ammeter would quickly tell the story, or even a voltmeter connected prior to cranking and left in place.

If I was a betting man I would go for a failed phase - reason being is that once a stator has been in place for a while they corrosion weld themselves in place quite firmly - which leads inevitably to the use of a lever to get them out and 9 times out of 10 the lever is applied to the wrong place and severs one of the windings - surprisingly this is a mistake most people do not repeat after they discover the cost of a new stator.

[peteremc]

Thank you all, particularly Tony for the very generous offers of assistance.

I'm slowly delving into the sorcery that is electricity and have read the procedures in my Clymer manual and I am dead certain I can at least run the quick test that will assist to isolate if there is a problem with the regulator or the alternator, as well as the more detailed regulator test - before I race out and buy a new regulator.

In fact, the first thing will be a trip to the auto suppliers tomorrow to purchase a multimeter. I told you I really didn't get electricity, but now I'm begging to learn, it looks like I may need one. Isn't necessity a wonderful thing?

Will get back when I have time to update this issue.

[Tony Smith]

In fact, the first thing will be a trip to the auto suppliers tomorrow to purchase a multimeter.

Jaycar will sell you a nice little basic unit that will do everything you need for under $20

[peteremc]

OK, so I purchased a pretty damn flash Multimeter for the grand sum of $17 (from Jaycar who have them in all price ranges, thanks Tony) and set about the diagnostics. Started with the “Quick test” as advised by Georges and the Clymer manual i.e. unplugged the regulator, installed jumper wire between the D+ and DF wires. The warning light went out, so, as the manual advised, I guessed it was the regulator.

Moved on to the Regulator test (as per the Clymer manual again) i.e. unplugged B+ connector on the diode board, started the bike, revved up just off idle and measured voltage between the diode board and D+ connector on the alternator brush assembly. This should’ve shown 13.5 – 14.25 but sadly showed 11.8 – 12.2. Looks like I’m getting close to the problem. Next test was to measure voltage between D+ on diode board and ground, which gave the same result. I guessed by now, the problem was, certainly, the regulator.

Off to follow another one of Tony’s leads to get a Bosch RE55 regulator. Called to see if they had one and was quoted $55, but when I turned up to purchase, was charged $46 – Bonus! It is a 2 pin device but (thankfully!) everything is labelled – the connector on the bike and the new regulator. A little bit of tinkering with connections and rigged up a ground wire (just in case) and we were all connected and good to go.

Started the bike, checked the charge at the battery terminals at 3,000 – 4,000 rpm and straight away had 13.8 – 14.2. Fantastic sight!

I must note here that where my last post said “…I really didn't get electricity, but now I'm BEGGING to learn…” well I wasn’t actually begging to learn and it should’ve read “…but now I’m BEGINNING to learn…”. I wish I never had the problem, but thanks to this and the forum’s help I’ve learned a bit and the problem is solved!

Many thanks to you all. I’m going riding tomorrow!

[mrclubike]

Awesome
Now that you can use a volt meter
In the future If you have an issue or question we can actually point you to a specific part or tell you what to check and it will save you a lot of time money and headaches
You can also look on YouTube for Videos on how to use it also.
You need to understand how to check for voltage drops ,
measure resistance and check diodes  

[Tony Smith]

Off to follow another one of Tony’s leads to get a Bosch RE55 regulator.

I am the first to admit that my memory is not as good as it once was. Whilst the RE55 will work absolutely perfectly, in fact one is fitted to the wifes R65/80, most people end up instituting a "peace of mind" earth strap for the "hanging" connector (I didn't as the system is already solidly earthed without it).

What I should have told you to buy was an RE57 which is a three pin device otherwise identical to the RE55.

The thing that is quite stunning is the increase in price - one of my spares is still in the box in came in when I bought it from  AC-Delco in Townsville in March 1985 - it cost a whole $7.50.

[georgesgiralt]

Peteremc, you wrote :
"OK, so I purchased a pretty damn flash Multimeter for the grand sum of $17 (from Jaycar who have them in all price ranges, thanks Tony) and set about the diagnostics. Started with the “Quick test” as advised by Georges and the Clymer manual i.e. unplugged the regulator, installed jumper wire between the D+ and DF wires. The warning light went out, so, as the manual advised, I guessed it was the regulator."

You are lucky. Your test is not good enough. The lamp going off is just a clue that the voltage from the alternator and diode board goes around the battery voltage. Not that the alternator is charging. (what if the battery is around dead at 12.0V ?)
If you had measured the voltage at the battery, as i told you, and revved the engine, you have seen the actual voltage the alternator is capable of (and it's ability to charge the battery whatever it's state is) so with one test you have ascertained the regulator and the diode board and the rotor and stator status.... Of course this test has to be carried for a short time and not above 16V if you do not want to fry anything else ;-)
I just point this for future reference for other have charging problems and using the search engine ;-)