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Author Topic: Timing???  (Read 1819 times)

Offline Oconner

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Timing???
« on: June 02, 2016, 04:35:56 PM »
Been trying to be my own mechanic(lucky I have more than one bike to ride!) Have ordered the alpha bean can, new plug leads and new coil blue from Rick at moto electric. Looks pretty easy to install. From what I have read I need to do timing. I have a timing light but am ignorant as to what exactly I need to do. What does 32 deg BTC at 3500rpms even mean and how do I adjust and check for this. I know you old timers are rolling your eyes, but remember we were all noobs mechanics at some point. Thanks ;)
'82 r65LS
'72 Honda CL 350
'13 FZ6R

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 06:05:18 PM »
This is the easiest job you will ever do in relation to the "return" from getting it right.

Once you get your new bean-can, install it and adjust the timing so that the bike will start and run reasonably cleanly - do not worry about the ignition being overly advanced or retarded at this time as it will not be staying that way long and will not be under any load.

Leaving the bean-can securing bolts just tight enough so that you can (with some effort) still move the bean-can, connect your timing light and start her up.

Using either the throttle tension screw or an assistant, set the engine speed to 3,500 RPM.

Now, using the timing light look in the timing hole and see what you can see, you may have to move the bean-can a little to find some flywheel marks.

What you are looking for is the mark on your particular model that means "full advance" (on mine it is "Z") it helps if before you start this process you find your flywheel marks and mark them with different coloured paint, but this is entirely optional and frankly depending on how bright your timing light is may simply be waste of time.

Now there are lots of methods to be pedantically "correct" about setting the timing, these involve drilling additional holes, making up "sights" etc. I will express my personal opinion that these are all a waste of time and that providing you set the timing in the right "postcode" your bike will run just fine.

Ok so now we have a nice stable full advance mark right in the middle of the timing hole Yay. You might think that your job is done, but it isn't, temporarily nip up the bean-can bolts and release the throttle tension or have your assistant allow the engine to return to idle.

First problem may be that it is now idling at 2,000 rpm, or perhaps at 600 rpm - in any case, not where you want it. Adjust your idle using the usual methods and then wave your timing light in the hole again - you are looking for whatever passes as the idle timing mark on your model. If you can see the mark at all I would call "job done", nip the bean-can bolts up, put the rest of the bike's clothes on and go riding.

BUT, if you cannot see the idle mark you need to work out if your idle timing is advanced or retarded, but before you do that stop the engine and then restart it, a retarded engine will tell you by being a bugger to start.

The next bit is a decision you have to make, depending on where your idle timing is (remember we set the full advance timing), e.g. if your idle timing is overly advanced, you might  want to compromise your full advance timing a little.

OTOH, if your idle timing is retarded, you probably need to change your crank timing gear and timing chain real soon now.


Lastly, something I skipped over, if you see a neat double image of your timing mark - sorry but it is timing chain time and given that few of us are lucky enough to know the service history of our bikes, I'd be changing the crank timing gear too.

Others can chime in from here.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline mrclubike

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 10:36:37 PM »
Quote
 What does 32 deg BTC at 3500rpms even mean  ;)
This means the spark is firing at 32deg before   the piston gets to the top of the compression stroke when the engine is running at 3500 rpm
On the fly wheel this is represented by a "Z" or a "F"
The "S" Mark represents 6 deg BTDC
The "OT"  mark represents TDC (top dead center)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 10:41:49 PM by Mrclubike »
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2016, 12:31:54 AM »
And remember that a good tune up is one that is double checked AFTER you have tightened the bolts. Otherwise there is a risk that the setting moves when you tighten the bean can bolts.

P.S. : My timing light (Chinese) refuses to light at 3500 RPM when the power supply comes from the bike battery. So keep the car not too far away to plug the timing light to it, just in case...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 12:33:32 AM by georgesgiralt »

Offline montmil

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2016, 08:16:11 AM »
Regarding the timing light's power source, over the years I have read many Airhead tuning n' timing tips. Several mention using a stand alone battery rather that the bike's battery. I do this.

And a discussion point here: These same topics suggest using the right side spark plug wire as a connection point for the timing lamp's conducting clamp. Right? Left? Is it simply a way to keep the cord clear of the work area or something else. BTW, I use the right side plug lead.

While tweaking the bean can, wear a sturdy, long-sleeved work shirt. It is far too easy to burn yourself on those freakin' hot headers or x-over pipe. That's gonna leave a mark!

 I will not say DAMHIK. I know because the scar is still visible.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 08:18:45 AM by montmil »
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 09:27:21 AM »
In it's Glory, and in the Factory Manual, BMW state to use the right cylinder spark plug.. Maybe this is why ...

Offline montmil

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 03:40:35 PM »
Quote
In it's Glory, and in the Factory Manual, BMW state to use the right cylinder spark plug.. Maybe this is why ...

Could be where I snagged that little tidbit. ;)
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline mrclubike

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 03:49:22 PM »
I have burnt both my right and left wrist on the exhaust pipes  :o
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline montmil

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 03:51:51 PM »
Quote
I have burnt both my right and left wrist on the exhaust pipes  :o

I truly hate burns on the inside of the wrist. They seem to take forever to completely heal.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 04:30:05 PM »
I always check it with both plug wires, even though I know it's a wasted spark system.  I guess because I can and it's so easy.  And maybe too many years of timing a dual-point Triumph, sigh.  
Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Offline Oconner

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2016, 01:29:17 PM »
Just wanted to thank you guys. did the deed last night after finally installing the new icu, coil, trigger unit and plug wires. Seems to be running fine. couldn't take it for test ride though. Next up Carb balance!!!
'82 r65LS
'72 Honda CL 350
'13 FZ6R

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Timing???
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 06:38:08 AM »
Quote
Quote
In it's Glory, and in the Factory Manual, BMW state to use the right cylinder spark plug.. Maybe this is why ...

Could be where I snagged that little tidbit. ;)

The only practical reason I can think for that is that the timing light lead will be draped over the frame of the bike and therefore well clear of the "hot bits".

Nearly 30 years ago i shouted myself a battery powered timing light which means the only connection I need to make is to the sparkplug wire. Providing the "D" sized batteries are fresh, it works a treat.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |