Electronic advance ICU with a standard Beancan

[mrclubike]

I was having an issue with spark knock
The problem was my mechanical advance in the the Bean can was starting to advance more and more as it wore
To the point that my base timing was down to 3deg BTDC
to keep the full adv to about 32beg BTDC to prevent knocking.
Instead of trying  to tune the mechanical back to 26deg
I decided to lock the mechanical advance out and use a 26 deg electronic advance ICU from the Beemer shop.
http://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=BS&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IG-MODULE26
After getting the mechanical advance locked out  it worked perfectly.
Getting it to lock is easy
The hard part is getting it where it needs to be so you can get the timing set.
The timing adjustment slots in the Bean can  are not really that wide
So you need  to get it locked at 0 deg advance like it was be for you remove the weights and springs.
I just drilled and tapped a grub screw into the gate carrier and assembled it with lock tight.
If you want a flat spot on the shaft for the grub screw to tighten on you will have to grind it because the shaft is to hard to drill.
 Â   

[Barry]

That's a neat solution. So it's a direct replacement for the ignition module but with advance built in ?

[mrclubike]

I have to add that although the motor runs good and has no spark knock  
But after checking  the timing again it is not really working correctly
I seem to be only getting  about 20deg advance from base timing instead of the 26 deg required for a single plug motor
I assumed I had a incorrectly marked ICU (22 deg)so I ordered another one from the Beemer shop
I put it on and it is the same
So now I have ordered a  new matching Emerald Island trigger unit   and I will try it with that and see what happens
I will post back then
I really cant figure out why this isn't getting the correct advance
The guy at the Beemer shop even thought it should work  

[Tony Smith]

So now I have ordered a  new matching Emerald Island trigger unit   and I will try it with that and see what happens
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i would have bought an Emerald Is unit myself but everyone I spoke to wanted to sell me the full kit.

If it isn't a rude question, how much for the trigger unit? I am assuming it is the new one with electronic advance/retard?.

[mrclubike]

So now I have ordered a  new matching Emerald Island trigger unit   and I will try it with that and see what happens
 Â 

i would have bought an Emerald Is unit myself but everyone I spoke to wanted to sell me the full kit.

If it isn't a rude question, how much for the trigger unit? I am assuming it is the new one with electronic advance/retard?.

They are going to credit me the second ICU and charge me for a complete kit. and just send the trigger unit.
 http://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=BS&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ELA44087

They have been more than help full. So I hope nobody tries doing this until I get it sorted out.
I don't want to cause them any more grief.

I have the old style coming that requires disassembly to change the sensor.
 
I don't understand why they do not list the trigger unit or the sensor separately.

I have a feeling the new trigger unit is not going to help with the short advance

I may have some electrical noise messing with the ICU
I tried it with the alternator dead and it still did not advance 26deg  
I am going to unplug the tach next and see what happens
When I reinstall the OEM ICU with no advance I do get a bit of advance and retard as i rev the motor up and down may be +- 1 or 2 deg
The timing chain and crank sprocket  are new with only about 2000miles on them

My original idea was to build a dual sensor trigger unit.  and just carry an extra ICU

[skippyc]

Just looking at some info on units It seems that 22degs advance units are for twin plug heads and to get 26begs you set it at 4deg initial advance. All the units i am used to are set at maximum advance and retard at low revs advancing as the revs rise till they hit the maximum setting.

I don't know what the maximum advance is for a R65.

[mrclubike]

R65 with single plugs is set to
6 deg Base timing plus 26 deg of advance for a total of 32 deg BTDC

So what I am getting is
12 base timing plus about 20 deg of advance for a total of about 32deg.

The ICU's I have tried are clearly marked 26deg

I played  with it today some more and I think what is happening is that the the rotor is not symmetrical enough ( reason for double image)  and it is causing the electronic advance to get mixed up.

The Emerald Island triggers I am sure are made a lot more precisely.
The description for it on the Beemer shops website says it gets rid of the double image often seen when setting the timing  with a timing light  

[mrclubike]

I think I have figured out why a locked BMW Bean Can will NOT work  with the Emerald Island  ICU
 After starting and during advance  the ICU must start using the leading edge of the Vane as its  reference  to to fire the coil and it advances the timing  by reducing the dwell.(shuts off voltage to the coil before the  the vane exits the hall sensor)
The BMW ICU always  uses the leading edge  of the van to power up the coil and the trailing edge of the vane to fire the coil (constant Dwell)
So the vane is wider on the EI bean can than in the BMW bean can  

[Tony Smith]

I think I have figured out why a locked BMW Bean Can will NOT work  with the Emerald Island  ICU
 After starting and during advance  the ICU must start using the leading edge of the Vane as its  reference  to to fire the coil and it advances the timing  by reducing the dwell.(shuts off voltage to the coil before the  the vane exits the hall sensor)
The BMW ICU always  uses the leading edge  of the van to power up the coil and the trailing edge of the vane to fire the coil (constant Dwell)
So the vane is wider on the EI bean can than in the BMW bean can  

Nice bit of detective work. Another forum member (Jonathon) has just bought a Siemens replacement beancan that likewise provides advance and retard electronically. I'd love to pull one apart and see if they went down the same path.

[jonathanrowley]

Yep, it arrived today - from the UK to the UAE and Motorworks - I fitted it, the can and ICU Marked 26 degrees advanced, this evening.

Easy to do - 30 minutes and the Bike fired back to life.
Just need a timing light to set the rotation I think though still.
Sees fine, not ridden it yet..

Nice unit, well made. Hopefully the end of my Ignition woes for another 40 years! I don't think...

[mrclubike]

Looks exactly  like the Emerald Island unit i got from the Beemer shop in California

[mrclubike]

I still do not see how that mounting bracket will work with the bracket that is welded   on my frame  

[Oconner]

how did you ever get it to mount. I have the same problem.

[Tony Smith]

how did you ever get it to mount. I have the same problem.

There are clearly two different frame mounts for the ICU, the one I (and a lot of others have) where the ICU heatsink has a 90 degree "foot" that bolts direct to the frame and the 2nd (earlier?) one where there is a bracket welded to the frame that the ICU flat bolts to.

I suspect given that this appears to be the first time this matter has ever arisen that the owners of the earlier(?) type are going to have to make their own arrangements, if it were me I'd buy a lump of scrap alloy and bolt it to the original mount after first drillign holes in it to mount the new ICU.

If I was feeling really keen I might even smear heat conductive paste between my plate and the ICU heatsink - a bit of extra heat sink is never going to go astray.

[mrclubike]

I made a bracket like Tony describes