Shock Replacement

[BPT]

Is this a topic considered to be like oil & tires?  My shocks are pretty well shot and I need to figure out something for replacements.  I've been reading various forums until I'm blind.  It seems like in the budget category (and, unfortunately, budget does have to be a consideration) the two I keep seeing are Progressive and Hagon.  I liked the idea of the Hagons being put together and matched for your bike.  I have read some good and some bad reviews about them (seems more to the positive though).  And I think there are some here that use and like them.  

My complication is the sidecar.  I've been talking to Dave Quinn and he says that they are not sidecar experts.  He told me what he thinks might work going by what others have purchased but suggested that I ask around.  So here I am........

Would anyone have any thoughts, recommendations on replacements for an R65 with a (light) car attached?  Dave says that he is thinking a heavier damp rate and higher spring rate than what he'd normally recommend for the bike alone.  It sounds good to me but figured I'd ask around since I'm new at this.

Anyone want to offer some constructive advice on this?  Both on Hagon in general and also shocks and sidecars?

                         Thanks - Brett

[nhmaf]

The Progressive brand rear shocks (I have on my R65LS) work pretty well, especially if you are >200 pounds or carry alot of stuff.   They aren't really damping adjustable so you might have a mismatch situation with your setup.  On the plus side, they are inexpensive, and well made, but no frills and if you cannot get close enought to want you want with the spring preload adjustments, well, you bought the wrong shocks.
The Hagons are definitely a significant step up and several folks have them and are pleased.   They'll setup the shock to your weight/load expectations and they standby their product.  More $$$, but more adjustment potential, custom setup, and very good quality, IMO.
Another option, but which has been somewhat on again/off again for availability is IKON - these were formerly known as KONI brand and are comparable in some ways to the Hagons.  But, KONI went out of business many moons ago, and was resurrected as IKON some years back.   i think they make good product but availability - at least in my area, has been sketchy lately.

I'm am putting a Sputnik sidecar on my 78 R100/7 - the R100 has some old school WorksPerformance AIR shocks on the back of it (PO had them put on from another older DS bike)  Amazingly, these still seem to work good on solo bike rides, and they hold air well.  I am going to try them with some more PSI when I get closer to getting the chair bolted up to the bike.  I don't think that they make these in the shorter length (13") for the R65 frame though.   They do offer several models for vintage bikes, so maybe they do - I haven't checked ... but they're still in business!

[BPT]

I am familiar with the Ikon/Koni shocks but those are considerably more expensive, I think.  As far as cost, which Hagons are you talking about?  Maybe they have different grades but the ones he recommended to me were $214 a pair.  Isn't that around what the Progressives are?
And he said I could get a single for the sidecar for about $110.  That seemed reasonable considering some of the other prices I've seen.

I was hoping to hear from some people here that might have used the Hagons and see how they liked them and if there were any problems.
I really need some help figuring out which ones will be suitable for me but not sure that will be easy to find.  I may just roll the dice and go with what Dave says most other people get and hope for the best.

I'll be interested to see your sidecar set-up.  Not familiar with the AIR shocks you are talking about but I'll look them up.  I'll be curious to hear about how your suspension set up works when you add the car.  

[montmil]

Have Dave Quinn-built Hagons on both my R65s and like 'em. To get the best shock for your bike, you must be honest with the info you give to Dave; including accurate geared up riding weight -not what your bathroom scale says when you're buck nekkid... unless you ride that way.

As to shocks for a side hack rig, I've no clue but I would trust Dave's recommendations.

Just my [smiley=2cents.gif]

[BPT]

Thanks Montmil, I think you might have been one that I read before was using and liking them.  So you like the ride and no problems with them?

I have no problem being honest about my weight.  As appealing as riding buck nekkid is, Ft Worth is still a bit conservative about that type of thing these days.....

The problem with Dave's rec's about the sidecar is that he isn't sure either.  He gave me what most other people have used.  But he told me to do my own research as well to be sure.  If I go with the Hagons I'll probably follow what he's said.  But wanted to check around first to make sure there isn't anything I'm missing.  The sidecar always adds complications and weirdness to these choices so I know it's not as straight forward as it would be normally.  But once they've been installed they're mine so I want to be as sure as I can be.

[Tony Smith]

I suspect that the only shock absorber that would work "properly' on a chair would be a VERY adjustable one, the difference between laden and unladen weight being fairly dramatic.

As far as shockies for an R65 go. To my amazement and very great pleasure I am happy with the Spanish Betors I bought recently.

I was prepared to make fluid changes, but that has simply proved unnecessary, they are not the worlds greatest shocks by a long chalk and after around 10km on a rough road I can fee them start to fade.

But by George the price was good. -= check out motobins.

[montmil]

Repeating an earlier shock absorber comment by Aussie Tony Smith:

BETOR - Better than nothing.

That line is a keeper. [smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif]

[Tony Smith]

Repeating an earlier shock absorber comment by Aussie Tony Smith:

BETOR - Better than nothing.

That line is a keeper. [smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif]

I actually may have to apologize to the Betor factory for 40 years + of dissing them. There current products are not bad at all. I bought because they were cheap and I knew stuff like seals would be catalogue items. To say i was pleasantly surprised is an understatement.

[soulmachine]

I'll throw my thoughts into this discussion.

Personally, being that you are bolting a sidecar on your bike, I would either stick with the stock shocks, or go with stockers from a heavier bike.

Progressives, with a car attached, I think, will blow out, sooner rather than later. Same with Hagon and Ikon.

I've worked at a Harley/Honda dealer for five years. My current boss and a co-worker both have FL sidecar outfits. Both bikes do perfectly well with stock shocks. Harley shocks.

When you have the owner of the distributor of a major shock manufacture telling you he doesn't know and to ask around, that's bold, blunt honesty in my book.

And let's be honest, you aren't going to be speeding down the road on this bike. Try riding the bike with the stockers first before going down the rabbit hole.

[BPT]

Tony and Monte - I checked out the Betors, wow, those are value priced!  I'm not sure if they'll work for me though and I don't mind paying a little more if I can get something with a good track record.  But I will keep them in mind if I end up needing something in the super budget range.  I am going to look them up and see what others have to say.

I heard from Dave again and, as far as adjustability, there is some.  He said that for safety reasons you want to provide for the max. But there is a little bit of leeway with what he can provide.  For the way I ride most of the time (myself and some ballast weight), I can get something that will be comfortable and then there are a couple of notches of adjustability if I should add extra weight to the car (passenger heavier than ballast, loaded up for a trip, etc.).  That would be every once in a while.  And those are my casual terms, he was more technical in the email, of course.

[BPT]

Soulmachine - The problem with the stock shocks is that they are pretty expensive and, at least from all that I have heard, not very good when it comes to the R65.  Maybe some of the veterans here can chime in on that, but that is one of the negatives about the R65 that I have heard more than once.  

I'm not sure from your wording if you knew but I already have the bike and sidecar together.  And it has what are most likely the original stock shocks on it and they are gone, which is why I need to replace them.  Same with the car.

Dave offered me a couple of different combos of damping, spring rates and such.  These came from what he knows about bikes with cars and what he has sold to others with close to my combination.  He gave me his opinions on what to use (with options for normal to heavier rates) but I told him I'd ask around here to see if anyone was familiar with my type of bike/car to see what they thought.  A lot would be a matter of feel and opinion and I don't have the experience to know.  So just to be clear, the asking around part started with me which he encouraged.  But he is very knowledgeable and extremely helpful.  The only thing that he wasn't actually sure about was a shock for the car itself.  He is pretty sure what would fit but needs me to measure to be positive.  Velorex isn't as common to just be able to pull it out of a book I guess.

Naturally he'll say good things about what he sells.  But he expressed no reservations about using a car with Hagon shocks and there is also no problem with the warranty/guarantee on them with the car.  Is there anything in particular about them that makes you think they'll blow out so soon?  My combo is generally thought of as being on the lighter side (both bike and car), especially compared to an HD set-up, I'd think.