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Author Topic: Torque wrench  (Read 2238 times)

rdteeler

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Torque wrench
« on: March 02, 2016, 06:38:34 AM »
My question is since Im going to be servicing my beemer myself,I find that Im going to have to get a torque wrench ,I have a snapon inch pound.But I find that im going to have to get one that reads foot pounds looks like from
0 pounds to 75 foot pounds would be enough.With out spending the big cash like I did on the snapon what would be a good less expensive option that is reliable. I was looking in at Harbor freights,and craftsman .What do yall use.

Offline montmil

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 06:57:32 AM »
I recall buying my first ever torque wrench when the beam-style wrench was pretty much order-of-the-day. Best you could really do was "pretty close" while watching that jiggly needle with your Mk1-Mod1 eyeball often at an odd angle. Still have a couple in the tool chest but there's a pair of clickers nestled next to them.

I now use the 3/8 and 1/4 drive torque wrenches from Harbor Freight. Rated at 4% +/- accuracy. Unless owners of the high-dollar torque wrenches have them periodically calibrated for accuracy well, how would an owner know if any torque wrench is clicking on the truth?  

BTW, Both Harbor Freight and Sears CrafIsman wrenches are made in China. I've used the HF torque wrenches to build up two aircraft engines that I flew behind for years. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you've paid for it.

 [smiley=2cents.gif]

Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
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1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Barry

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 08:00:23 AM »
I have a relatively inexpensive 10 - 80lbft torque wrench made by Sealy which at least is a recognisable brand and gets good ratings for accuracy in reviews. That range does almost everything I need. I use feel below 10 ftlbs and grunt above 80lbft.

The way I look at it you could have the most accurate and expensive torque wrench available accurate to 1 % but when it comes down to it there are vastly bigger variables involved in the process of torquing a fastener such as thread finish and lubrication. In other words torque wrench accuracy is so swamped by other aspects and choices that it's not as important as we think.  What you do get with an expensive wrench is durability which pro's need but perhaps occasional use amateurs might not.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 08:05:21 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 09:20:04 AM »
Hello !
Some time ago in Airdheads mailling list, there was a post about testing torque wrench by J. Wilson.
Here it is cut in two because it is somewhat lenghtly.
=============================================
now that i have your attention guys ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUD81N_TlS8
also as bob says ...
It doesn’t make much sense to take an inexpensive consumer grade torque wrench to a metrology lab for testing. The cost of the wrench just doesn’t justify the expense. But you have to know how accurate your wrenches are to have any confidence in your work.
Fortunately, it is actually quite easy to verify accuracy right on your own work bench at home. And your results can be just as accurate as anything done in a lab.
How to Calibrate a Torque Wrench
Tools needed:
1. A heavy duty vise and a sturdy work bench. The size and quality of the vise will depend on how high your torque wrench reads. A ½” 250 lb.ft. torque wrench will need a heavy duty vise with strong jaws. It will also require that the vise be mounted to a sturdy work surface.
2.Weights. I used pieces of bar steel, but barbell weights are perfect. The exact weight doesn’t matter. What does matter is getting weights that will allow you to test the wrench in the normal range that you use it. You can test at only one weight, but if you want to check consistency, get 2 or 3 of them and stack them. As a general guide, if you have a 3/8” and 1/2” wrench like I do, weights in the range of 20 to 55 lbs will suffice.
3.String or bailing wire to hang the weights from the torque wrench.
4.A method to weigh your weights. Stop by your local UPS store or the post office as ask them if they can weigh them for you. Don’t rely on a bathroom scale. They are too inaccurate and you will just be wasting your time. If you permanently mark the numbers on the weights, this is the only time you will ever have to do it.
I need to point out here that weights should be chosen to give you measurements that are in the heart of the tool’s adjustment range, or the range that you normally use it. Don’t use a 20lb weight on a 250 ft.lb. wrench. Not only should you never measure torque in this range with this size wrench, but the wrench will be very inacurrate in that lower 10% range. I found that my 250 lb.ft. wrench was off by 25% at 27 lb.ft.
Procedure:
1. Mount the square drive of the wrench in a vice. It should be oriented so that the handle pivots vertically. (Use the side of the vise jaws.) Set the handle in a position as close to parallel with the ground as possible. Also make certain that the wrench is set for tightening, not loosening.
2. Devise a method for hanging your weights from the string. If you are using barbells, you can run a large eyelet bolt through the middle and use large fender washers. Tie a loop in the top of the string.
4. Wrap your hand around the handle where you normally grab it and mark the center point. Usually the middle finger or just to the right, between the middle finger and ring finger is close. You can also use the center of the grip as a calibration point. The reasons are explained at the end of this procedure.
======= To be continued=====================

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 09:20:55 AM »
==================Part two ============================
5. Hang the weight from the handle where you marked it. (If you have a soft, cushioned grip, protect it with something like a thin piece of rubber.) Here is a picture of what everything should look like.
6. Start adjusting the torque until the handle clicks. If it clicks right away, lift the weights and back off on the setting. Keep going back and forth with the adjustment until you find the setting where it just barely clicks. Every time the wrench clicks you will have to lift your weights to reset it.
7. When you find the transition point between clicking and not clicking, make note of the setting the wrench clicks and write it down.
8. While you are at it, grab a tape measure and measure the distance from the point where the string hangs from the handle to the exact center point of the square drive. If you have a typical wrench with a direction dial on the back, you can usually measure to the midpoint of the dial if it is directly behind the square drive. The more accurate you are with this measurement, the more accurate the results will be. Nearest 1/8” is ok. Convert any fractional measurements to decimal. As an example, 15 5/8” would become 15.63”
9. You will now do this simple calculation; This is a very simple concept. Torque = weight x length. As an example, if you hang 20 lbs exactly one foot from the fulcrum, the torque would be 20 lb.ft. If you went 2 ft. away it would be 40 lb.ft.
Perform the calculation. Multiply the weight of your test weight by the distance you measured and divide by 12 (to convert inches to feet). If you are testing an in.lb. wrench, don’t divide by 12.
The result of your calculation is the actual torque being applied by the weights. Compare it to the setting on the torque wrench and you will have the amount of error. In other words, if your wrench is set to 42 lbs, and the measured torque is 38 lb.ft., the wrench is off by 4 lbs, or 10%. (That’s pretty bad)
An important characteristic of any torque wrench is repeatability. Check the transition point between no click and click numerous times to make sure measurements are repeatable. In this way you can gauge how trustworthy your measurements are. Even the cheapest wrenches should pass this test within 1 lb.ft. or so.
These days, most consumer grade torque wrenches under $75 no longer have a means to align them. If they do, there will be a hole in the handle somewhere with an alignment screw. If there isn’t one, just apply a correction factor into your measurements when adjusting the setting. If the wrench is off by a lot, you are probably better off just getting a new wrench.
I have a 35 year old TRW 1/2" and a 10 year old Craftsman 3/8". Here is what I came up with.
My Test Results: (To give an example)
TRW ½”
37lb x 15.3” = 566.10 /12 = 47.18 lb.ft.
With my TRW and 37 lbs, my calculated torque was 47.18, indicated was 48. I still need to come up with a weight of about 55 lbs to accurately measure the wrench at 80 lb.ft. This is the setting where I normally use it. It is just amazing that a 35 year old wrench that has been dropped numerous times is still this accurate today.
Craftsman 3/8”
12.25 x 21.5 = 263.38 /12 = 21.44 (The wrench was set at 22.5)
12.25 x 37 = 453.25 /12 = 37.77 lb.ft. (The wrench was set at 39)
My inexpensive $75 Craftsman was surprisingly accurate. It was only off by 3% off. That’s pretty darn good for an inexpensive consumer torque wrench.
I hope this helps those that worry about the accuracy of their wrenches.
or http://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench
======================================================

I do hope this will help !

rdteeler

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 12:05:32 PM »
I just want to say thanks for the input,because those are the 2 that Im looking at.The Harbor Freight one is really a good deal around 20 bucks for the 3/8 drive foot pound one.The Craftsman is 79.95 .The biggest difference is the Harbor freight is warranty for life, where as the craftsman is 1 year.

Offline Luca

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 04:16:30 PM »
I have all 3 Craftsman micro-clicker chinese made torque wrenches.  They go for about $80 a piece, but I didn't spend more than $40 on any of them at Sears since they go on sale at half price from time to time.  Got the inch pound wrench for $25 with $15 in "surprise points."

I also have a (cheap) Craftsman beam style wrench.  To be accurate, you need to be looking straight at the dial and you need to keep an even pressure on the wrench until you hit the spot on the dial while the wrench is moving.  Needless to say, it is not my go-to...  but i did use it when I had to torque one of the cam sprocket bolts on my sohc v6 ranger.  Some of the clickers don't work on left hand threads and I wasn't sure about mine.

I used all four wrenches when I did the timing chains, valve springs, and head gaskets on the sohc 4.0  Had I paid full retail, they would have cost more than the cheap chinese ebay parts I threw into the motor!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 04:27:09 PM by Luca »
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Offline mrclubike

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 07:49:09 PM »
Get something Name brand
Do you want to cheap out with  something as criticle  as torque
  A  torque wrench from harbor freight is not name brand.
You are going to spend a lot  more than $80.00 on any job you do to bike  that needs a torque wrench.
The problem is you do not know the click type wrench has failed until it may be to late if you aren't an experienced mechanic.
 All things made In CHINA are not created equal some are good and some are terrible.
Also Be very careful with the torque specs listed in some manuals
The spark plug torque listed is crazy HIGH
I use Snap-On Torqometers but that is just me I like to see the torque come up so I can tell what is going on. But they are very slow for normal automotive type Engine work.  
  
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Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 08:25:37 PM »
Quote
Get something Name brand
Do you want to cheap out with  something as criticle  as torque
  A  torque wrench from harbor freight is not name brand.
You are going to spend a lot  more than $80.00 on any job you do to bike  that needs a torque wrench.
The problem is you do not know the click type wrench has failed until it may be to late if you aren't an experienced mechanic.
 All things made In CHINA are not created equal some are good and some are terrible.
Also Be very careful with the torque specs listed in some manuals
The spark plug torque listed is crazy HIGH

+ 1 to all of the above.

By all means buy cheap spanners and cheap socket sets, the two things that you must never (IMLHO) compromise on are screwdrivers and torque wrenches.

The really good thing about quality gear is that they last forever.

My Stahlwille screwdrivers were bought one at a time each weekly pay (they cost too much for me to buy more than one at a time) more than 40 years ago. I have only had to replace the ones that "walked" for various reasons, I have never worn out or damaged one from use.

I have Warren & Brown "beam type" torque wrenches in 3/8", 1/2" and 1" ranging from 5ft/lb to 350ft lbs. I bought the 1" drive one a few years back at an Auction and I have never had it calibrated, I live in hope of swapping it for a 1/4" W&B.  They are lovely tools, I brought the 3/8" one 38 years ago in 1978, the 1/2" one a little later. These are "lifetime" tools even if they were used professionally.

1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline mrclubike

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 10:04:23 PM »
The Beam type wrenches do work very well
They just aren't as sexy as the others
This is what we normally think of when you say Beam Type in the US
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-3-8-in-Dr-Beam-Style-Torque-Wrench-0-75-ft-lbs-Torque-/231864117110?hash=item35fc2da776:g:gf4AAOSwxp9W19rl
I would rather use this   over a HF clicker
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:15:17 PM by Mrclubike »
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Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 11:32:41 PM »
Quote
The Beam type wrenches do work very well
They just aren't as sexy as the others

I guess sexiness is in the eye of the beholder. To my (perhaps aged) eye, a deflecting beam torque wrench looks like a tool you can trust - a micrometer type torque wrench looks like something an Accountant would use.   :)
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Motu

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 04:19:19 AM »
Every workshop I've worked in (lots) has had Warren & Browns, but I've got my own 200 ft/lb too.  I had a 3/8 one too, but it disapeared after I fired a guy. Claimed another on insurance, and got a new fangled clicker (Norbar) I've had it 30 years, but would prefer my W&B back. Have a Sykes Pickavant for in/lbs.  I'm not a fan of clickers, once you've used W&B's there is no going back.

I've had my 1/2'' 43 years, and it's still like new.  I did rings and bearings on a '53 Hillman Minx as a home job, and I charged $60...that was to pay for the torque wrench to tighten the bearing caps and cyl head.  If I did that job today, I could get a full set of torque wrenchs and a box full of other tools too.

Offline mrclubike

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote
Quote
The Beam type wrenches do work very well
They just aren't as sexy as the others

I guess sexiness is in the eye of the beholder. To my (perhaps aged) eye, a deflecting beam torque wrench looks like a tool you can trust - a micrometer type torque wrench looks like something an Accountant would use.   :)

I have never seen a Torque  wrench like that.
They must be more common in AUS since they are a AUS Co  
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Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Torque wrench
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 08:29:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
The Beam type wrenches do work very well
They just aren't as sexy as the others

I guess sexiness is in the eye of the beholder. To my (perhaps aged) eye, a deflecting beam torque wrench looks like a tool you can trust - a micrometer type torque wrench looks like something an Accountant would use.   :)

I have never seen a Torque  wrench like that.
They must be more common in AUS since they are a AUS Co  

You are probably right, they are durable tools though and highly thought of by anyone who ever uses one. I must admit that I simply assumed that they were an older but universal sort of tool design. I am surprised to find otherwise. I am glad you mentioned that you have never seen one that looks like a W&B because only last night I wrote an email to someone suggesting they buy a beam type torque wrench (and I now understand that means something different elsewhere on the planet) and gave them advice on how to use it, which will be utterly meaningless given that my description was highly specific to a deflecting beam wrench of the type I am used too......

1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |