New Battery - Lithium?

[marcmax]

Here is a good write up on using lithium batteries from Web Bike World.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/li-ion-motorcycle-battery/shorai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm

[steve hawkins]

The biggest problem I have is the price difference between a Ballistic (for example) 12 cell and a 16 cell battery.

The 12 cell is aprox £150.  Which is bad enough.
The 16 cell is aprox £300 - which is eye watering.

The 16 cell version was developed for Harley's - so there is a special
'Harley Tax'.

Guess what they recommend for an R100?

Cheers

Steve H

[Tony Smith]

If the lithium batteries are so finicky with how you charge them with an external charger, isn't a motorcycle charging system the worst way to treat these batteries? <snip> They are anything but a stable charging platform.
So far, we have from previous posts: a small, expensive battery that's finicky, can be permanently damaged by overcharging, requires a special 'smart charger', is temperature sensitive to both hot and cold, and may crank as an 18AH battery but not for long..."

Gosh. What's not to like?  

If you are buying a Lithium battery as a replacement for a wet cell battery, make sure that it incorporates the necessary on-board circuitry  to deal with interfacing with (for example) a motorcycle charging system.

There is possibly no "dirtier" charging system than a 1980's era Yamaha trail bike, when faced with a fully charged battery the voltage in the battery circuit will frequently "float" at up to 18 volts - the onboard circuitry goes a long way to explain why the lithium battery has outlasted its wet cell and gel cell predecessors.
 
For me the attraction was primarily vibration resistance, in such a small battery weight was not really a consideration, but having seen how it survives the antics of a very primitive charging system in my case there is a lot to like .

[steve hawkins]

Well, I actually went and ordered a 12 cell Ballistic battery. It should arrive today.

Then I need to figure out how to install it.

The whole point being is that I want to either hide it, or at least make it less obvious.

I went for the 12 as I have a post 81 R100, with the light flywheel, slightly lower compression(?), Valleo starter and no extra electrics.

Let you know how it goes.

Rev. Light

[Barry]

If I've looked at the correct one, that battery weighs only 2.4 lbs. That's some size and weight reduction. Charging requirements don't seem too onerous, main thing seems to be not to exceed 14.4 volts.

Hope we haven't come across too negative on your proposal.

Good luck with it.

[steve hawkins]

No Barry,

It is right to be skeptical, and there have been issues.  Especially with people picking batteries that are too small for their bikes, it might be able to turn the bike over well enough, but if there is nothing left to give after, you have to run the bike long enough to recharge it.  They do need a modified behavior on the part of the operator.  Same for cold weather.  For-warned is for-armed.

It was also expensive, more than I was expecting, the above price was modified by postage and the dreaded VAT.  But if I did not try it now, when I needed a new battery anyway, when would I?  

Interestingly, I was given the idea about making the battery easily removable, so it can be kept inside, in the warm, and only put on when I needed it.  slide in cassette and a couple of wing nuts?  At least I could then keep it warm!   Added security as well.  

But lets see the size of it.  R100 batteries were always a complete 'arse hat' to remove....My old one took me an hour and involved removing its tray as well.  But then my sub frame is not stock either.

Cheers

Rev Light

[marcmax]

Keep us posted on your install, thoughts and usage experience. I was contemplating putting one in my R65 but opted instead to fashion a black, leather, buckled bag to hide the original battery in place. I had a hard time with the prices they are asking, especially since my battery has been holding up fine. When it starts to fail me, I will definitely be trying one of the lithium batteries. Especially since DelTran, who makes Battery Tender, battery maintainers, is only about an hour and a half away. They have their own line of lithium iron phosphate batteries and I can eliminate shipping charges and make a nice days ride out of it.

[steve hawkins]

It arrived today.  It weighs less than 3 lbs.  Volume wise, it is about a quarter of the size of the battery I took out.  It also weighs just over 16lb less than the battery I took out (i.e. the lead acid battery was 19lb).

And I have removed the battery tray.  It wont be needed.

I am still moving it around the empty space to see where I can put it.
As it is a 12 cell battery it will be difficult to completely hide.

Probably under the saddle.  

I have some pictures.  I will upload then in due course.

Cheers

Rev Light

[steve hawkins]

Just to let you all know, I have mounted the battery under the saddle in an alloy box I made up for it.  You can actually only just see the bottom of the box, as it is mostly hidden by the saddle and the frame tube of  the after market sub frame.  The battery is mounted on its side.

I have bought a new longer negative wire to connect it to the back of the gearbox, but have decided to install a battery kill switch close to the battery, so that I can isolate it completely, when necessary.  And this will allow me to use the original starter wiring.  This is what is taking the time, mounting the kill switch.  Be done soon enough, then it will be firing up time.

Cheers

Rev Light

[nhmaf]

Eagerly awaiting the sound of success!
I think it is a good idea to make a box for it.    I'm sure that they make the battery cases on these sturdier than what they do on the weight conscious portable electronics ones, but still, you really really do not want a puncture to occur - the resulting short in the battery can be a highly exothermic event, as we say...   I'm dealing with some products now that are prone to doing just that, it ain't pretty.

[steve hawkins]

Yes,

I have put a little padding inside the ally box to stop it rubbing/moving.  It is tight enough for it not to move.....

I was still bashing a bit of alloy plate to mount the battery kill/isolation switch on last night.  It will be mounted in the side panel area on the left side, using one of the old battery tray mounts and convenient hole close to where the sub frame mounts.  That way I can pick p the old starter motor cable and then use a short link cable to the battery terminal, that is now further back.

I have to paint it tonight, satin black, over the etch primer I put on last night.  Should be going by the weekend though.

As is usual, one mod leads onto another, ad nauseum.....

Cheers

Rev. light

[steve hawkins]

An attempt to upload a couple of pictures from my new phone.

What you can see is a picture of the size of the new battery.  Did I mention it was 16 lbs lighter than the one I took out?  Probably.

The next one is the current installation.  You can just see the corner of the battery box in the top right, above the rear mudguard (fender).  Its almost out of view as it is fixed to the underside of the saddle.  And also the battery isolation switch

Did I mention that it seems to work

[steve hawkins]

A better picture

[67siia]

Steve, just a quick follow up on how the battery is working, in particularly the charging part. I'm taking the plunge and acquiring one of these and want to consider all costs, any changes/modifications needed to your charging system?

[steve hawkins]

I made no mods to the charging system.  Don't go too small. A 12 cell should be plenty for a 65, as long as you are not going to festoon your bike with all sorts of current drawing accessories.... The only extra I fitted was the car type battery isolation switch and only then because I wanted to be able to isolate the battery for long lay-ups - And the handlebar kill switch no longer exists on my bike.

Cheers

Rev Light