Valve adjustment problem

[DeeG]

Deeg

 
So, if comes down to you. I re-read your initial post and I wonder if you fell for a Noob trick. Did you by any chance carefully bring the engine up to compression on the LHS and set the LHS valve clearances and then immediate goo to the RHS and try to set the valves without turning the engine over to bring the RHS side up to compression?
 
The giveaway is that you managed to set the RHS exhaust, but not the inlet.


Sorry to accuse you of this, but I simply cannot see any other rational reason for the symptoms you describe.

Don't be sorry, I will take any and all suggestions.  I did something similar when I put the R90 back together....had the timing 180 off.  doh!!

I did the left, turned engine until the mark came up again, then went to the right side.  

Something just occurred to me..... putting the correct heads on is easy.... one side is threaded for the exhaust, one is smooth for the carb.  I marked the cylinders when I pulled them off, but when I got them back, they had cleaned them and the marks were no longer there. Is it possible that, due to the age, one of them is oh so slightly warped and as such will only 'fit' on one side?

Tomorrow is Sunday for me, I think that I will spend some time in the shop before I head to karate class and take my frustrations out on other people.  

[DeeG]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.do?model=0364&mospid=51897&hg=11&fg=12

Check this on the cylinder head and cover.  Item 8 if that is missing it would give the problems you are having.

Don

No, they are present.

[montmil]

Ms Dee,  Anything new to report? We await; like that mouse with cheese baited breath.

[DeeG]

Worked on the bike yesterday, then karate and a busy day at work today, so no time to post until now.

When I got the parts back from the machine shop, I didn't really compare what one head looked like vs the other one.  I looked at them, and they were shiny and clean and pretty.  lol

So yesterday I took the right side head off, put it on the bench, then took the left side off and set it next to the other one. Then I got to looking at them.   Hmmmm.....


This is what they look like side by side:

Problem head is on the right.  You can see where the intake is seated lower that than the one on the left.


But.  This is what it looked like before I sent  it off:



And now:  I cannot tell if the recess is any deeper.



Now we look inside:

Left side:



Right side:



You can clearly see the valve guide on the left head is pushed further onto the valve stem than the one on the right.

And measuring the intake spring heights, the problem (right side) head is roughly 1/8" taller than the left side.
 
I thought this might be related to the unleaded fuel, but from what I can tell, its only a problem on the exhaust side and normally not on the pre-1979 bikes.  But I don't know.  The bike was having some leak down and compression issues on both sides, which is why I tore it apart int he first place.  So, the question now is, can it be fixed?  

Would pushing that valve guide further onto the valve stem solve the problem? I think maybe not, as the guide is just a sleeve and has nothing to do with the length of the stem. And the valve cannot be pushed any further in as then it won't seat properly. Am I SOL and I should start shopping for a new right side head?

 

[DeeG]

did a bit of searching for valve recession and found this thread from the MOA site.  Post #5 pretty much explains everything to me.  I guess its time to ship it off

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?63613-Apparent-valve-or-seat-recession

[Tony Smith]

I really do not know what to say.

When you give advice it is necessary to assume that people, especially people you pay money to, have done the right thing.

That anyone pretending to lay claim to being a mechanic or an automotive machinist gave that head back to you in that condition beggars belief.

They are thieves, nothing more or less and morons to boot. Had you been able, in your own ignorance, to have achieved tappet clearance you would have ridden on that engine and it would have self destructed.

Bye the way, you do not have "valve seat recession", Obviously I cannot see the seating face of the seat, but what I can see looks fine, they have not receded. What you do have is a valve that was worn beyond further service that has been refaced and as a result of its reduced working diameter has been "pocketed" in the head.

Consult with a more knowledgeable and reputable firm and see if the seats are salvageable, (they probably are) then all you need buy is new valves and have the new and reputable firm properly seat the guide, K-line (or similar) them to correct clearance, and fit the new valves you buy for them.
 
On the other hand, if the seats are stuffed from the mishandling of the morons, then your best option is to buy a pair of decent heads on ebay and throw new valves into them after having the guides k-lined.

[montmil]

What a sad issue you've had with your repair service. Really upsetting.

Tony makes excellent points regarding the valve seat that was likely worn beyond limits when the heads were taken to your "mechanic" for service. It's surprising that the shop did not notice nor inform you of the wear situation. An honorable shop would not have continued with the work and charged you for same.

You may have some recourse. I would take the 'before' photos and the heads back to the shop and ask for a refund.

[DeeG]

A learning experience.  That's what I tell myself. hahaha

I'm going to call up Ted Porters shop (which is what I probably should have done in the first place) and see if they can salvage this. Intake valves are still available through Moto Bins. And I have the exhaust valves that I got from you, Tony.  I'll just have Porters shop replace them all.  

In the mean time, I will take them back to the machine shop and see what they say.  Sad thing is, I supplied them with the proper specs from Mr Aushermans site and I told them if something needed replacing to let me know and I would get parts for them.  

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/engine.htm

The bike hasn't been used in 3 years, it can sit for a couple months longer.  That'll just give me time to swap out the tires, change the fluids, and try to figure out how to hook up the driving lights without letting out all the magic smoke in the wires.  

Thanks guys!


Dee

[Tony Smith]

I'm going to call up Ted Porters shop (which is what I probably should have done in the first place) and see if they can salvage this. Intake valves are still available through Moto Bins. And I have the exhaust valves that I got from you, Tony.I'll just have Porters shop replace them all.

If they cannot, I still have a RHS R45 head you can have. I would have sent it with the valves but i baulked at the approx $AU80 bucks to post it to you. Still, if you need it I will get off my backside and send it.

[DeeG]

I'm going to call up Ted Porters shop (which is what I probably should have done in the first place) and see if they can salvage this. Intake valves are still available through Moto Bins. And I have the exhaust valves that I got from you, Tony.I'll just have Porters shop replace them all.

If they cannot, I still have a RHS R45 head you can have. I would have sent it with the valves but i baulked at the approx $AU80 bucks to post it to you. Still, if you need it I will get off my backside and send it.

I called Porters shop this morning, left a message.  They haven't called back yet. I'll try them again on Monday (working a 12 hour shift on Friday).  

Dee

[Ed Miller]

Are they open on Monday?  I just ordered a bunch of parts from them, mostly carb floats and rebuild stuff.

He did my heads a while back.  Replaced the seats too, not due to recession but to the mis-match between valve material and valve seat material.