Bike Quit At Work

[Bob_Roller]

Left work at 1430 today, got two blocks from work, stopped fora stop sign, let the clutch out and the engine quit and would not start .

Got it off the road, checked for ignition, no spark at all !!

Waiting for the towing company to pick up the bike and myself .

The towing company messed up and called my home phone number instead of the number I gave them, so they didn't show up at work when they said they would .

Called them back and I was told it would be 90-120 minutes before they could get to me .

Great start to a weekend !!

At least it happened close to work, not out on the expressway !!!!

I guess I know what I'll be doing tomorrow !!!!

[disco51]

I'm sure you're referring to the guzzi in your stable.  No way the R65 would do that to you  
Have fun tracking down the source!

[Bob_Roller]

It's the '81 R65, coming up on 34 years old, something was bound to break, it's over due !!!!!

Towing company called back and will be here in 40 minutes, at least some progress anyways .

5 hours after my first call, I'm finally home !!!

Did some quick troubleshooting when I got home, I get a spark when I move the 'KILL ' switch from on to off, so it looks like the ' bean can ' is the suspect now .

Luckily, I have a spare ' bean can ' in the boxes o' parts from my '84 LS .

I'll plug the spare into the connector, spin it and see if I get any sparks .

Nice to have spare parts to throw at a problem, without spending money needlessly .

[georgesgiralt]

sorry to hear that. My bike was friendlier. she began to run wild at high RPM like there was something caught in the main jet. And when I parked her in the garage, she stopped working on a sudden.  Hall sensor dead. Lucky me.
If you have to change the Hall sensor, go for the Siemens. It is far easier to rivet. (open the tube with a conical pin, then rivet it using a light hammer )
And last but not least triple check the wiring into the bean can ! If it is too loose, it will get caught in the steel vane and properly cut... Don't ask why I know this...
If you need to replace the wiring altogether and find a new male plug, I've a source in Germany. (the cable strain relief on the bean can can be reused provided you keep the outer isolation 2 mm each side of it and insert the new cables into it. )
Have a nice week end....  

[Bob_Roller]

I've got a few Hhoneywell 2AV54 sensors, I got about 5 years ago .

They have solid rivets, I've got access to a ' rivet squeezer ' at work, a hydraulic ' C ' clamp type tool that squeezes the rivet to produce the ' bucktail ', or flattened part of the rivet .

[montmil]

Bob, I know you'll check all related wiring and terminals first.

[georgesgiralt]

Also bear in mind that if both plate are riveted, you CANNOT remove the riveting and put the plates back in place without destroying them.
So you have to drill a hole in the lower plate to gain access to the Hall sensor rivets...
I own both can, the one with a screwed plate and a one with riveted plate. I _do_ prefer the former easier to work with.
Also, you can test the bean can with the led and resistor (and a 9V battery) using the schematics on the web. if you use tiny crocodiles plugs you do not need to buy a male AMP socket. I've made such tool and it is very useful to test the device and set the static timing when putting things back in place... a couple  € well spent.

[Bob_Roller]

Got to do some troubleshooting on the bike today .

Plugged the spare beancan that I have into the connector, turned the key on spun the drive end of the bean can and got sparks, great, simple fix !!!!

I figured, I'm this far, I'll just repalce it now and be done with it .

So I removed the original beancan .

Just for curiosity sake, I plugged the original bean can back into the connector spun it with the key on and got sparks !!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't make sense to me at first .

So I turned the key on and hit the starter button, the camshaft isn't turning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It all starting to come together in my head, what happened, the engine quit, I hit the start button and all I got was a clunk out of the starter, sounded like the battery was bad .

Pushed the bike off the side of the road, tried the starter again and it started working, but didn't ' sound ' right .

So now my ignition problem has taken an ominous turn today !!!!!!!!!!!

Put everything back together and may get to it in the next week or so .

The timing chain was replaced at 45,000 miles, the bike has 88,000 on it now .

I wonder if the cam tensioner failed and the chain came off a sprocket .

I guess anything is possible, until you get in there see what really happened .

[montmil]

Certainly hope the cam chain has not "jumped a tooth".

Might you pull the spark plugs and watch the piston crown and valves as you slowly rotate the engine by hand? Hope you do not see any sign of valve/piston contact.

My first ever cam chain replacement was a nail biter. I did not mark the crankshaft gear tooth and, as you know, the bearing hides the tiny index mark. Thought I had it positioned at exactly 6 o'clock.

I completed the chain refit, then very slowly hand-rotated the engine, and... bonk. I felt contact and peeked down the sparkplug hole to see a valve touching the piston. Sure glad I had not buttoned everything up and hit the "Engine Destruct Button"!

One tooth was all it would take...

[Bob_Roller]

I tried looking into the sparkplug hole, the piston moves, but the valves don't move at all, so I can't tell if there was major contact between the piston and valves .

There must have been some contact, that's why the starter just clunked when I tried to start it before moving the bike off of the road to a safer area .

I'm going to remove the exhaust and intake and see what is visible there, exhaust has to come off anyway to get to the timing chain area .

With the exhaust and intake removed, I'm only 6 nuts away from removing the cylinder head, I think it would be wise to get a good look at the piston head and if necessary, remove the valves for inspection .

The pushrod seals needed replacing anyway, so the work I planned for my vacation on the bike, looks like may be done now, instead of October .

[montmil]

As the cam chain is driven by the crank shaft and you see no valve movement, I'd be investigating a possible broken cam chain. No valve movement means the cam is not rotating.

One other caffeine-fueled thought- I wonder if there would be enough slack in the cam chain for the chain to fall free from the cam gear if, and that's a big IF, the tensioner and totally failed?

Time to pull the timing chest cover. Hopefully, Bob, it's something less than initially feared. Luck to you.

[Luca]

I don't think the tensioners would allow the chain to fall clear off the sprocket.  On the earlier duplex chains with spring tensioners I know that if you have a one piece chain you need to put it on with the sprockets... and an old chain won't come off with the tensioner removed.

If the replacement timing chain was a master link style though, maybe the fish clip bit the dust and let the master link move around.  Guess we'll have to see what Bob finds.

Depending on what's broken, Bob, you might also want to plan to pull the oil pan and go fishing for bits o' engine.  At 88K it could probably use a de-sludging anyways.

Hopefully it's nothing too bad; just a couple bent valves or the like.  Already sounds like it could have been much, much worse.

[montmil]

R65s never had duplex chains.

My R100s has the 'endless' duplex and I helped the PO install a new chain with the sprockets engaged. Royal PITA so hoping I don't have to go there again... ever.

[Luca]

I do know we've all got the simplex chains, I just haven't had my hands on one.  What I should have said was if an endless simplex chain was anything like a duplex and also needed to be installed with the sprockets then a total tensioner failure shouldn't let the chain just slip off.

The master link duplex chains with two, very tiny, easy to lose, odd sized E-clips are not so bad to work with, but it is tedious and slow going when it comes time to get the link installed.

[Bob_Roller]

This could have been a whole lot different, if it had happened about a minute later when I would have been doing 65 mph !!!!

Stopped off at Harbor Freight Tools on Monday, I have a store about 2 miles away, picked up a valve spring compressor, with their 25% off coupon got it for $7 .

Never had a need for one until now .