Wiring errors

[arvo92]

Yesterday I wanted to start my bike and realized that the headlight was done. I fiddled around and the problem was not with the bulb. After lots of time with wiring I got it to work but the whole dashboard lighting was gone when headlight started to work. Weird stuff. Finally I just unplugged connectors under the tank and it fixed it, the lights were back but this time no starter... it was just dead. Nothing when I hit the button nor when I held down the clutch.... so i knew it was wiring. It meant my planned trip through the country went down the toilet. I had to take the car even though it was the nicest weather in 2 weeks.

Today I fiddled around a bit more and suddenly it was all working like nothing happened. Bike starts and all the lights work. Anybody else with problems like these and what should I be looking into?
It seems to me the wire connectors are just corroded and give me weird errors. When I got the bike lots of wiring was just dead and the connections needed to be cleaned. What is the procedure to work on the wiring and how to get it to the situation that my bike will always start and not give me another missing day on the road.
What do you guys use to clean the connections?

Cheers,
Arvo

[montmil]

Hate it when those intermittent electrical gremlins ruin our plans. Grrr

Perhaps begin your search at the battery and work forward. Connections can be problematic due to corrosion or, and this is often difficult to see, broken wire strands at the crimp. A couple attached strands might, and that's a pretty BIG might, still provide some current. Maybe.

I would really start looking at the wires where they plug into the various relays and such underneath the fuel tank.

Cleaning terminals is a chore but can be done using a fine ScrotchBrite-style pad, fine grit wet-or-dry sand paper, electronic supply store's terminal cleaner sprays, or what ever else comes to mind. If there's a lot of flex at the connector crimp, be suspicious. Starter relay terminals are a mass of potential faults. And check those terrible euro-style ceramic fuses and their clips.

No voodoo or black magic involved. Just patience and careful work.

Let us know what you discover.

[Bengt_Phorqs]

Soaking the connections in a vinegar solution can help.  Yes, it can be awkward but 30 year old connections are really hard to clean.  Also I recommend a schematic of the bike and a digital multimeter.  Good advice to start with the battery and work forward.  Most likely you have some wires crossed somewhere, so pay close attention to the wiring colors.  Unless a PO has spliced in generic wire that doesn't match, then you really must have a multimeter to check voltage and signal.

[arvo92]

I proudly announce that I discovered nothing.

I do have a multimeter + schematics but the problem is that these errors are intermittent. I have had a problem with starter before and I know it came from connection at the handlebar. There is nothing more i can do than just clean up the corroded connections which I did with the best effort I can put in there. Multimeter does not help because the electicity is there when i check it but leaves me by the road when i do not check it.

I guess the vinegar solution is my way to go. I actually though of using battery acid for short period of time - soak the whole terminals in there. it is impossible to clean inside of round terminal tubes with manual tools. i used round chainsaw file but it is a bit too large in diameter to be really helpful.

[Ed Miller]

My wife has little sandpaper file things.  I wonder how hard it would be to trim one to fit inside those connectors.  Then use compressed air or something to clean out the loose sand?

[Tony Smith]

My wife has little sandpaper file things.  I wonder how hard it would be to trim one to fit inside those connectors.  Then use compressed air or something to clean out the loose sand?

Will work a treat, but generally if you break the connection and then give the female side a gentle squeeze, the force required to re-make the connection will scour the corrosion from the relevant parts of the connectors.
 
A friend of mine  was beset with constant electrical problems with the Norton he owned and spent a weekend breaking every Lucas "bullet" connector, slipping a piece of heat shrink tubing over the wire and then hitting the connector itself with a plumber's soldering iron. Once the joint was soldered into a single congealed mass to his satisfaction, slide the shrink tubing over and hit with a hot air gun.
 
For two weeks he was proud beyond all bearing with his electrically fault free Norton. Then Joe Lucas got him and the dynamotor failed. (I forgot to mention thhat this was the much loathed Norton "Interstate" (more usually known as either an "Intestate" or "a waste of a good featherbed frame" depending on how close your association was with the thing).
 
I don't think he bothered to ever get it going again and it is probably still dripping oil in a dark corner of his shed.

[arvo92]

I was riding home today and again wiring troubles started. I lost the turn signals, then I noticed that the brake lights were gone as well. The headlight was still there so I could drive back to home.

Intermittent as I said. The thing was that the electrics came back and went away again only in 2 seconds. I decided that this time I will not give up. Instead of trying to chase that demon, I started to shake every connection one by one to see when do I get the electrics back. Voila - in half an hour I had found the source:


The fault was under the tank in the back end. Somebody has put a extensions over there so you could unplug the wires for some reason. I checked these wires and the green with black stripe sources pretty much everything: starting from horn, turn signals and brake lights to headlight itself. So that is the bugger which left me by the side of the road once.

Do not take notice into the upgraded intake manifold. The old one was too slow for me and I had to dump it to give room to this beauty. 2,5bhp more!

[Luca]

Those wires should go to the fuse box, but yours is missing.  The blue wires are jumpers put in place of the old fuses.  The box would be held to the backbone of the frame with a hose clamp if it was there.

Go figure... it's usually the ceramic fuses that cause people grief... not the lack of them.

If you want to return to a fused system, might as well go with in-line blade fuses unless you plan on bringing the bike to Pebble Beach.  They'd deduct a few points for the high flow manifold though  

[montmil]

This is the OEM fuse box location, sans the plastic cover. A semi-constant PITA.



Prone to be troublesome due to corrosion, the euro-style ceramic fuses and their wimpy spring-tension holders are easily upgraded to more modern weather-proof fuse holders and the use of the mini blade fuses.



Probably not a NAPA store in Estonis but there's bound to be a decent auto parts shop where you can locate similar fuse holders. usually two sizes offered; a large fuse holder and the mini-fuse. Get the small ones. Lighter is faster.




I used a small, rubber-cushioned, aluminum DG4 Adel clamp (left) and a zip tie (right) to secure the new fuse holders. Use nothing more than a 7 amp fuse.

[arvo92]

Thank, both Monte and Luca, for explaining this.

I will try to locate one of these fuse holders and I am sure they sell them in my local town. It is probably not a very urgent issue but it could save me from losing a bulb or two in case of electric shortage (i hope I got the right word for this).

Again, my bike has been fixed with the "it it doesnt work, remove it" mentality as the missing fuse box shows.

Monte - on the last of your pictures it shows that there is an accessory plug. I have wondered what it was. What can you connect there and how much can it power? Is there a general use for this or not?

[montmil]

Follow the wiring diagram and you'll find one of the pins is keyed hot. I furgit which one but the diagram -or someone else- will chime in.

How much can it power? Not a whole lot with the stock alternator which does not even begin kicking a full charge back to the battery until you hit close to 3K revs or more. I would not think any heated clothing would do much other than drain the battery and leave you stranded.

I seem to recall a figure of 240 watts (?) for the alternator... on a good day. Add up the power requirements of what you now have and you'll be able to determine a maximum draw available for any accessories.

[balibeemer]

One of my annual jobs is going over every connection, cleaning it with a fine wire brush and then 'painting it with vaseline - which make excellent dielectric grease.  No corrosion!

[Luca]

It is probably not a very urgent issue but it could save me from losing a bulb or two in case of electric shortage

While it's not urgent and plenty of old vehicles don't even have them, I'm a big fan of fuses.  

Electrical shorts can cause fires.  My brother drives a 1962 Ford Falcon daily and he lit it on fire when the horn failed.  Fortunately he was in the driveway and the fire was quickly put out with only minimal damage to the (approximately 8-wire) harness.

[Barry]

I've witnessed an electrical fire on a 60's Bonnieville and that was a horn push.  It wasn't pretty and in the panic response of trying to disconnect the battery some sort of quick disconnect device would have been a god send.

[Ed Miller]

You can always cut the ground cable.  At least, those of us who can't seem to leave the house without a multiplier tool like my Gerber.