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Author Topic: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring  (Read 1598 times)

Offline Enertech

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Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« on: June 27, 2014, 02:19:50 PM »
I have had my 1984 R65 for a couple of years and have just changed the oil according to the factory riders manual.  I have since read all about this issue of canister depth, shims & o-ring issues.  Have I just been happy and ignorant? Does all this apply to the R65?  I would appreciate a little guidance on the R65 as I am about to change the oil/filter again.

Cheers
Dan

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2014, 03:25:13 PM »
I think it applies to all bikes .

I guess the inner sleeve that the metal shim sits against, can migrate over time, if it goes in, then you don't have suffucient pressure on the white o-ring .

The best advice I've heard, that if when you do an oil filter change and the o-ring you remove is square instead of round then you don't have a problem .

I'm sure someone will post, the measurement for how far in the sleeve should be, won't take much time to check it, the next time you're in there .
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 03:25:49 PM by Bob_Roller »
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'82 R65 LS
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I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2014, 03:36:53 PM »
Yes, it all applies to the R65, R45, R60, R75, R80, R90, and R100 from 1971 - 1995.

Chances are probably fair that your filter setup is OK if you haven't destroyed the engine already, so the key thing is to make SURE that you put all the proper parts back correctly, and renew the white o-ring.   Remove the cover carefully and you may not need to replace the paper gasket(s) (if they are there, or they may stay stuck to the engine case).   Just be aware that there is supposed to be 1 metal shim (or in some rare cases, (2) thing metal shims) between the o-ring and the inside edge of the oil filter canister in the side of the engine case.   The o-ring that you pull out with the old filter should like SLIGHTLY square in cross - section, from being squished a bit -- that indicates the proper amount of compression of the ring and a good seal.   If the o-ring still looks pristine and round in cross section -- it isn't being squeezed enough.  Likewise, if the ring is cut to bits or severely mangled/flattened, there is too much pressure or something has been messed up with the shims.

It isn't a difficult thing to do, but it does require a bit of thought the first time one does it.   But once it is done right you just have to do it the same way going forward with that bike forever.   Each airhead's tolerances in this area can be somewhat different, so there are some allowed variations.

I would buy the filter kit from a BMW dealer at least the first time and make sure that it is the oil filter kit with the new o ring and paper gasket (and these can come with a new metal shim as well).

Do you have a good metric dial caliper with a depth gauge, or, at least a steel machinist rule?   We check the depth of the cannister by measuring from its edge to the outer surface of the engine case, usually in 3 places (ex at "10", "2" and "6" o'clock positions around the circumference of the hole in the engine case ) and average the measurements.   Generally, if your cannister depth value comes out between 2.9 mm to 3.3mm, you should be fine with the 1 metal shim under the o-ring, and 1 layer of paper gasket on the engine case under the oil filter cover.    If the depth is 3.4mm or more, then one may either try to change the cannister depth (I never have) or you use a combination of perhaps 2 metal shims and 1 or none paper gaskets under the cover.   IF the depth is much less than 2.9mm, then  one can try to change the depth of the canniseter (again, I never have) or use the 1 metal shim and multiple paper gaskets under the cover.   You must always use at least 1 metal shim in the hole first to protect the o-ring from being cut by the edge of the inner cannister.   You may also find that since the shim is stamped out of sheet metal, one side has a sharp edge -- put that side "IN" the hole first so it doesn't tend to slice into the o-ring either.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 03:48:33 PM by nhmaf »
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Offline Enertech

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 03:56:35 PM »
Thanks for the straight scoop!
Cheers
Dan

Offline montmil

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2014, 01:26:49 PM »
Dan, Snowbum has a lengthy essay on the Airhead's oiling system. There's even a formula to determine the correct percentage of crush for that big, important O-ring. It takes a while to 'mine the nuggets' but there is gold in the article.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/Oil.htm

I recently went through some oil filter drama with my 1978 R100S. Snowbum and Mike Valenti -out Sandy Eggo way- were godsends.

The canister depth should be 3.0mm / 0.118". Anything off that mark, well, read Snowbum's article. Also, very few R65s will require a paper gasket with the filter change.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2014, 11:33:35 PM »
My R65 needs/uses the paper gasket - the cannister depth is a bit shallow - sort of on the edge of needing it or not.  But with the gasket, the ring compression is just about ideal.  My 78 R100/7 cannister though is deeper
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 11:34:32 PM by nhmaf »
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Offline Barry

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 05:17:10 AM »
My tip is ignore generalisations. You should  measure everything yourself and don't assume the gasket shim and O ring are the exact nominal dimensions they are supposed to be.

Example from my table below but use your own measurements:-

Canister depth 3.0mm
Add the gasket = 3.55mm
Subtract the shim = 3.25mm
Subtract 3.25mm from the O ring thickness  = 0.55mm compression which is near perfect.

One thing not displayed in the table is how the minimum and maximum compression figures are derived.

Minimum compression of 10 % is a rule of thumb figure provided by O ring manufacturers.

To determine maximum compression the object is to stop short of  compressing the ring fully square.

If we assume for simplicity the O ring is exactly 4mm then the cross sectional area = 3.142 x 22  = 12.57mm2

0.8mm compression would produces a cross sectional area of  4mm x 3.2mm = 12.8mm2 so that's enough to accommodate the  12.57 mm2O ring without it being compressed fully square.

The ideal target compression would be somewhere between the two with 0.4 - 0.6mm being ideal.

I'll say again beware generalisations even if it's on a guru's web site. On my first oil change in my enthusiasm to compress the O ring I left out the gasket and it turned out to be a big mistake. The O ring came out beyond square with feather edges extruded. Worse than that I believe  the excessive compression of the oil filter itself caused the pleats to kink which pre-disposed it to collapse which it duly did and that is  not a good thing to happen.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 05:19:06 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline montmil

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Re: Oil filter shim and the $2000 o-ring
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 09:41:39 AM »
This formula will assist in determining just how much O-ring percentage of compression you have or may need.

Using these specifications for replacement parts -or accurately measure your parts:
     Metal Shim = 0.012” /  0.30mm
     Paper Gasket = 0.018" / 0.45mm
     Silicone Rubber o-ring = 0.158" / 4.00mm

BMW suggests an o-ring compression percentage of between 10% and 25% An ideal result of  17.50% provides some latitude of error in either direction. I've seen crush percentages near 30% but anything more may be problematic.


[size=12]Formula to Determine Percentage of O-Ring Compression
[/size]
O-Ring plus shim minus gasket minus canister depth divided by  O-ring  times   100 = %
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet