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Author Topic: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)  (Read 1483 times)

Offline Matt Chapter

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Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« on: June 06, 2014, 05:50:21 PM »
I was riding home today, and came to a stop light.  The bike stalled, so I thumbed the starter.. "click"

Tried a couple more times, one click each time, and then the idiot lights stopped lighting up.

I moved to a safer location, and when I turned the key on, the tach needle moved up to 4k rpm, and fell to 0 when I switched the kill switch to "off".  I thought that there might be something wrong with the switch, so I jumped the two leads, eliminating the kill switch, with the same results.

Caught a ride home, brought the battery with me, and it has 12.75 volts of charge.  I suspect the battery even so.. it's a bmw supplied AGM.  It's on the tender right now, and I'm going to take my other motorcycle's battery back in a bit for more testing.

Anybody have any thoughts?
'04 R1150 RT ~41000 miles
'86 R65 / '84 motor ~72000 miles. SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles. non-runner!

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2014, 05:58:18 PM »
Other than the battery,  I would check the charging system .

Does the red ' GEN ' operate like it's supposed to ???

It's easy to miss, if it doesn't work .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Matt Chapter

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2014, 06:43:14 PM »
The gen light seemed to operate normally today, and it was on when I first stalled, so the bulb isn't burnt out.  I really do suspect the battery, it's been quite a while since I bought it.  In fact, a glance through the receipt stack shows I bought the battery 12//23/2008.
'04 R1150 RT ~41000 miles
'86 R65 / '84 motor ~72000 miles. SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles. non-runner!

Offline Luca

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2014, 07:29:33 PM »
With that much voltage at the battery I would at least check to make sure you have a good ground connection at the transmission.

But tired batteries will do funny things when they go tits up, and sealed batteries can still lose some elecrolyte.  Might be time for a new one.

btw, the killswitch shuts off all the idiot lights, which can be handy to know when searching for faults...   but if you were to draw all the battery current through the starter that could put the lights out too.  I've seen cars with bad batteries have the dash go dark when you try to crank them.

My  [smiley=2cents.gif] is that if the charging system were at fault you'd see a lower battery voltage
'82 R65LS
'01 K1200RS

Offline Matt Chapter

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 08:34:47 PM »
I went back just now and after cleaning the battery terminals and reconnect, off we went.  So a bad connection at the battery, it would seem.  Since I just had that transmission work done, I'm going to check the ground connection as well.
'04 R1150 RT ~41000 miles
'86 R65 / '84 motor ~72000 miles. SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles. non-runner!

Offline Luca

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2014, 12:26:31 AM »
I'm sure you know... but be careful with that hollow transmission vent bolt.
'82 R65LS
'01 K1200RS

Offline montmil

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 06:42:09 AM »
I would have the battery load tested. My Triumph 900 battery read great voltage on the VOM but still wouldn't turn over the three cylinders. A free load test at AutoZone showed it didn't have the amps to crank it up. New AGM fixed all issues.

Stay close to home until you have resolved this issue.

X Games at COTA this week in Austin. Even a flat track race demo.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 09:31:16 AM »
The last time that happened to me - the battery was kerplunkt.   It would measure with some reasonable voltage when resting, but as soon as a load was put on - even just the idiot lights when switching the key on, the tach would swing upwards and then drop back down, and everything would be pretty much dim/dead.  No starter action, except maybe an occasional click from the relay.   I replaced the battery, and then checked the charging action of it.   Turned out that the new battery wasn't being charged properly either - replacing the voltage regulator brought the charging voltage up to 14V where is should be.

So, it is good that charging the battery and checking the cabling connections seems to have fixed your problem.  But, also check the voltage at your battery terminals with the engine running ~4000 RPM and make sure you are getting sufficient charging voltage at the terminals (13.8V - 14.3V), no more, no less.

The tach swinging upwards I have found to be a helpful troubleshooting indicator - since the tach pickup is on the low (primary) side of the coil, it indicates that there is at least some voltage there, and the ICU is trying to operate.... what happens in the tach swinging upwards case is the ICU is struggling to bring the voltage up to proper 12V DC level, but as soon as the current draw gets above some small amount the voltage drops, which is picked up by the tach as a fire pulse.   The current draw momentarily drops, allowing the voltage to rise up again, the ICU tries to bring the voltage back up to 12V, and the cycle repeats.    Depending on the battery condition, etc. this can happen  for hundreds of times over a few seconds, and make the tach swing upward.  Eventually the voltage drops low enough that the ICU cannot bring the coil primary up high enough to register on the tach, and/or there isn't enough system voltage to run the tach and the idiot lights.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 09:37:53 AM by nhmaf »
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Offline Matt Chapter

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 01:46:57 PM »
Quote
Stay close to home until you have resolved this issue.  

Took it around the block afterwards, seemed ok, but I think I will get it load tested this evening.  Glad I didn't ride it today, got a monsoon this morning.

Didn't know they had flat tracking at the X games, I want to check out the track sometime but haven't managed to yet.
'04 R1150 RT ~41000 miles
'86 R65 / '84 motor ~72000 miles. SS lines, Spiegler rotor, Progressive monoshock, Keihan silencers, a piece of Pichler fairing.
'76 CB400F ~26000 miles. non-runner!

Offline montmil

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Re: Electrical woes (on the side of the road)
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 06:19:35 PM »
Matt, the flat track "race" was simply a crowd drawing demo.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet