front brake

[livingdeadhead]

is it me or is the single disc on my bike just for decorative purposes ? whilst riding at the weekend i was using engine braking and the rear drum   which is very good by the way to slow down , (sorry i cant use the word braking here! ) or are they all like this ? can someone point me in the direction of a thread on braking ? (or non-braking) . would the rear frame stand the weight of a small ships anchor ?  

[steve hawkins]

A full overhaul and bleed of system is normally recommended before really throwing money at it.   Check you disc for grooving.  Check your pads for glazing, etc.

Followed by some news hoses, braided if you like, but original hoses will be past it.  

Perhaps a change of disc and pad material?  Cast Iron disc (effective, but dirty) or something exotic, like an EBC full floating disc, etc.

Then a new caliper perhaps?  A 4 pot caliper to replace the Brembo.

Perhaps consider putting a second disc on (I actually went from dual to single - just to be different - with my café racer).

How deep are your pockets?

Cheers

Rev. Light

[livingdeadhead]

seems to be working fine , only thing i can think of is glazing , theres a guy i know in sheffield (used to work on a certain mr sheenes machines back in the day ) i've had him refurbish old shoes and pads before , he replaces it with green stuff spec or above type material , have to have a run up to see if hes still there , used to charge £3.00 a set ! mind you that was 20 years ago , was cheaper than buying new ones and sharpened the brakes up a treat ! will a mono 650 front end go on? theres one on ebay

[k_enn]

I had diminished front braking the other season to the point where it took a long time to stop if I did not also use the rear.  Everything appeared to function correctly.  Turned out to be two things -- a replacement of the pads and a major bleeding of the brake line with a vacuum pump did the job.  Now they grab really good.  Try those items before you put any serious money into other parts of the system.  

FWIW, I still have the orginal brake line on my 1982, and it is working just fine.  Those factgory lines are better than a lot of people give them credit for.  YMMV.  

k_enn

[Barry]

OEM vs braided hose is an interesting and controversial topic. Snowbum has been a consistent defender of OEM hoses saying they are high quality and should last many decades.

Leaving aside any possible ageing what is it about braided that should make them better ? Is the braid really so tightly woven and secured at the ends fittings that it prevents any possible expansion or is there something else that makes a difference like the inner bore of the hose being smaller than OEM meaning less brake fluid to be moved.

Just out of curiosity I attempted to measure the expansion of OEM hoses.  I used digital calipers to monitor the diameter at several points along the length of the hose while squeezing the brake lever as hard as I possibly could. By that I mean many times harder than I've ever used on the road and probably an order of magnitude beyond a level where "brake feel " comes into it. The result was no measurable expansion, not even half a thou. Maybe there was some but I couldn't measure it.

So I'm still puzzled as to how braided hoses manage to improve on OEM. There is an obvious problem of not being able to directly compare just the hoses as fitting new ones inevitably also means new fluid and bleeding the system.

[livingdeadhead]

also , nearly forgot ! the span to the lever is seemingly vast (only have medium hands, germans must have huge mitts!) any dodges , mods to make it more user friendly?

[montmil]

Dead Head, Help us out here as memories get foggy after a few days...

What year bike and what brakes? ATE's or Brembos? Dual disc or single?  [smiley=whistling.gif]

My response will concern the Brembo caliper on my '81 R65 single-disc scooter.

Pull the brake pads and replace them with a pair of EBC FA18 organic pads. If you have OEM stainless rotor/s, the metallics will stop you well -at least for a bit- until the metallics have eaten up your SS rotor/s.

Use a red ScotchBrite pad and some strong solvent to put a serious scrubbing on the rotor/s. Both sides. Clean out any oily grit from every one of the rotor's drilled holes.

Check the bitty little fluid return hole in the bottom of the reservoir. Confirm it's working by removing the MC's lid and observing the small eruption in the bottom of the reservoir as you stroke the brake lever. No disturbance in the force? Possibly clogged. Probe the opening with a straight pin or single strand of thin copper wire.

Drain the old brake fluid. Flush the entire system with fresh fluid. Drain again and refill.

Take the time to do a most excellent job of bleeding air from the system. Helpful to tie back the brake lever overnight and allow the time to push out any remaining Don Ho tiny bubbles. Speed Bleeders are the cat's arse.

Unless you have a seriously kinked rubber brake hose, leave it be. The rubber hose -and those pricey but pretty braided SS hose- both have a semi-hard nylon / NylaFlo tube inside the rubber and SS braid cover.

Completed, you should be good to go. You will need to bed the pads to match your rotor's grooves by doing some 40 mph to full stop "hard stops". After that, practice your "stoppies". Post pics  

[Matt Chapter]

(only have medium hands, germans must have huge mitts!) any dodges , mods to make it more user friendly?

Move your hands inboard / outboard to taste.  Then, commence working on your grip strength!

[arvo92]

Could wheel alignment play a role in braking performance as well?

I have fully re-built my brakes but I still have a bit of a drag on one brake pad. The wheel rotation shows that both brake discs move like 0.5mm sideways at the same time at some point of the wheel turn (I guess wheel balancing is not fully correct). So not ideal trajector. Could that reduce the stopping power as my new pads and full bleeding have not done the brakes über snappy?

[Barry]

 

Could that reduce the stopping power as my new pads and full bleeding have not done the brakes über snappy?  

Disc eccentricity could cause the caliper pistons to be pushed back a little further than otherwise needed and they will then have further to travel at the next application of the brake. It only takes a few thou extra to produce excess travel at the handlebar lever.  

[montmil]

Avro, before we get back to the original poster's brake issue; have you confirmed proper installation of the front axle, bearing preload and pinch bolt security?

Pull the pads in question and confirm there's no odd contact as the pads extend and retract.

[Bob_Roller]

I can't say for sure about all OEM rubber brake hoses from BMW are this way, but the hoses on my '81 R65 and '02 oilhead did not have an inner liner, only single thickness rubber, without any fabric braid in it either .

I'll see if I can find one of the hoses from the '82 LS, cut it open and post a picture .

The line from the master cylinder to the splitter, broke on my '81 R65 after 10 years, that's whan I went to braided stainless lines, they were less costly than OEM lines at the time in 1991 .

In 2007, I replaced the OEM rotors with EBC semi floating steel replacements and EBC ' organic ' pads, I think they are some sort of graphite material FA57 pads, if I'm not mistaken .

Dry braking was not noticeably improved, but wet braking was greatly increased, to where I will not hesitate to ride it in wet conditions, the OEM rotors and pads were unsafe in wet conditions from my  experience .

This is the one area that I would like to see an improvement in, after getting off of the oilhead, or '87 Guzzi, the R65 brakes aren't confidence inspiring and I've had my '81 R65 since January, 1981 .

[livingdeadhead]

cleaned calipers and pins , pads are bmw , plenty of meat , spin the wheel, spins freely put brake on , bang stops instantly , about 1/4 inch of movement at lever , seems great on the road still very 'entertaining' performance! lol are bmw pads any good or are there any anyone can recommend?

[Bob_Roller]

Just my experience with my '81 R65, OEM dual front discs and OEM pads .

Dry brakng performance, pretty good, for the era of bike .

Wet braking performance poor at best, the brakes make alot of noise, but very poor braking .

I replaced the OEM rotors with EBC semi floating steel rotors and EBC FA57 pads, the OEM rotors were worn beyond minimun limits at 78,000 miles, 128,000 km .

Dry braking not notably improved, but a vast improvement in wet braking .

Before the upgrade, I would refuse to ride the bike if there was a good chance of wet conditions .

So to answer your question, you can spend alot of money and not get much appreciable  increased brake performance on an R65 .

If I had front pads that required replacement, I would get the EBC FA57 pads for ATE calipers or FA18 pads for Brembo calipers, over OEM pads .

[Tony Smith]

So I'm still puzzled as to how braided hoses manage to improve on OEM.
 

They look faster.

It's the same rationale that leads people to replace the standard airbox with pod filters.