The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: Airhead Suspension  (Read 1546 times)

Offline montmil

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 8371
Airhead Suspension
« on: December 09, 2013, 11:59:17 AM »
Pulled this very interesting essay from today's Airlist. Author is Tom Cutter whose Airhead history extends back to his days with Butler & Smith into his Airhead service business of today.



<<Konis were what we fitted back in the day and were in Europe at least
considered to be premium shocks! Ikons have continued in that
tradition.>>  This from another post leading to Tom's reply.

The Koni 7610P series were outdated in design by 1970, yet Koni
continued to manufacture and sell them all the way into the 80's. When
they sold their tooling to the company that began producing the exact
same obsolete design under the Ikon name, nothing improved. The same
over-sprung, inconsistently-damped shocks are for sale from them today
as Koni sold 40+ years ago. If they sold for $75 a pair, I might
recommend them for guys who want to keep their wheel from rubbing in
the fender, but otherwise they are about the poorest choice for
motorcycle suspension available on the market today.

There is a wide variety of choice in the motorcycle replacement
suspension market today. We are fortunate that the technology only
available to racers twenty years ago is now available in budget-priced
shocks and springs today. Just as important is that manufacturers today
have the capability to manufacture shocks that fit and are correctly
valved to work on the intended make and model, unlike the day of
one-size-fits all approach used by Koni 40 years ago, when the size of
the bolt hole and the eye-to-eye length were the ONLY two variable
available.

In the simplest summation, vehicle stability on a two-wheel, single
tracked vehicle is largely dependent on correct chassis geometry, match
of spring and damping rates to vehicle mass and load characteristics,
and wheel alignment. For THIS discussion, about shock absorbers, the
affected factor is chassis geometry. This is not a fixed number, it is
a variable that changes during riding as the fork and swingarm move
through their respective ranges of travel. It is important that both
work in unison, that the vehicle not pitch fore and aft, each of which
will have adverse effect on the steering head angle and swingarm angle
of attack. All of this is covered in most basic books on motorcycle
suspension dynamics.

To the Airhead rider, the change in chassis geometry when we ride is
most evident as the "hinge in the middle" or "rubber cow" effect. It is
NOT caused by chassis flexibility, despite the many claims to the
contrary by the purveyors of silly chassis stiffening kits.

Good suspension for your Airhead will start with correct spring
selection to obtain the correct ride height front and rear. The shock
damper must control spring sompression, to allow those compression
forces to bleed away into the chassis harmlessly without upsetting
geometry. Then the damper units must be able to control the spring each
time it rebounds from a bump, to prevent secondary and tertiary pulses
or "pogoing."

There is a lot more than this to suspension design and selection, but
choosing cheap, poorly-matched suspension components is to choose to
throw out the opportunity to have a stable, safe vehicle.  This is much
MORE true for road riders and tourers than for racers, because racers
KNOW their exact load, the exact conditions of every inch of the road
that they travel, and can adjust accordingly. The street rider must
have a suspension package that will allow adjustability across a wide
enough range to accommodate the variations in load and road
characteristics that will be encountered by the rider.

There are a LOT of really good shock absorbers available for your
Airhead currently, and many of them cost in the same price range as the
bad ones. Choose wisely. Your safety depends on it.


Tom Cutter
Yardley, PA

http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline steven m

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 237
  • It seemed like a good idea at the time...
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 12:29:36 PM »
I swapped my factory shocks for some Koni shocks and have been very happy with them.  Of course the OEM shocks were still pretty good but old so perhaps it isn't a fair comparison.  But then again I'm not dragging my knees around on the street.
Taking into account the massive torque generated by our R65's along with the tremendous grip available from super sticky radial slicks on our extra wide snowflake rims not to mention the g-forces from our six pot disc brakes it certainly is a challenge to keep everything under control in 140mph sweepers.  I wish...

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 01:54:08 PM »
Quote
The same over-sprung, inconsistently-damped shocks are for sale from them today as Koni sold 40+ years ago. If they sold for $75 a pair, I might recommend them for guys who want to keep their wheel from rubbing in the fender, but otherwise they are about the poorest choice for motorcycle suspension available on the market today.

I'm in no position to counter that view as I haven't tried Koni's. It sounds to me though like an "exaggeration to make a point"

« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 02:04:44 PM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9124
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 03:40:00 PM »
For the price they want for a set on IKON shocks, I don't think they are worth it .

I put KONI shocks on my '81 R65 in June, 1994, cost was $130US .

I've got a set of Hagon shocks for the '82 LS, got them from Rob Valdez, when he sold the parts off of his '79 R65 .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Semper Gumby

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Dances with cow!
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 03:55:51 PM »
I've had a set of Progressives on my bike for years (they are starting to rust the springs).  I've had really good luck with Hagons on the BSA's.  I like the customer support with my questions for a Non-standard Bagger BSA Thunderbolt.
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

tvrla

  • Guest
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 11:20:04 PM »
I run Konis on most of my bikes and am happy with them. I put a new set of Ohlins on the 77S and really wondered why I spent the money when they didn't feel much different than the Konis.

I will say that I agree that the Koni springs spec'd for our bikes are way way too stiff. I love the ride on my LS since going to a shorter, lighter spring.

Offline montmil

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 8371
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 10:21:48 AM »
Quote
... I will say that I agree that the Koni springs spec'd for our bikes are way way too stiff. I love the ride on my LS since going to a shorter, lighter spring.

The Ikon/Koni shocks for R65, with a 1/2" shorter shock than most other BMWs, carries the same spring as the rest of the shock line. Too stiff. You may rebuild the Ikon/Koni with shorter and lighter tension springs, but that just adds to the cost.

Dave Quinn, the Hagon distrubutor for the US, will provide you with similar priced Hagons that come with springs matched to your particular bike, personal riding weight, extra luggage and riding style. Spring preload remains the only variable adjustment on these basic Hagon and Ikon shocks.

Did consider Ikon/Koni -have Hagons on both my R65s. http://www.davequinnmotorcycles.com/
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Airhead Suspension
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 06:09:59 PM »
Quote
Quote
... I will say that I agree that the Koni springs spec'd for our bikes are way way too stiff. I love the ride on my LS since going to a shorter, lighter spring.

I agree that the "stock" spring rate provided in the past by Koni is way too heavy for a lightly loaded bike with rider only.
 
I do very much like the approach of the Hagon supplier in the USA to "profile" the bike and rider and then fit appropriate springs, but sadly in the case of the sort of use that BMWs are put to I think he is trying to hit a moving target (and for that matter so to were Koni/Ikon) with no chance of satisfying all needs.
 
Consider my own situation, If I decide to head off  I may be solo, or I may have a pillion, I will have two panniers that will be loaded variably according to where I'm going, what I'm going to do when I get there and how long I am going for.  I may also have a top box mounted on the rear rack, or at the least a duffel bag strapped to it, and of course a tank bag. Finally if camping  I will have tent food and cooking gear strapped down to some small mounting racks I made years ago  between the fairing and the fuel tank.

Weight wise with me alone there is a bit over 100kg, add wife of 60kg then say a maximum of 60kg for luggage (all up if going on a 7 day  or longer ride where we expect to camp)

And therein lays the problem, a spring and damping rate appropriate for a 100kg load is going to be much less than adequate for a 220kg load. In fact I'd venture to suggest that the only type of shock units on the market would be of the air suspension type, for example Fournales.

In my case I long ago bought a second set of (heavy) springs to put on when loaded and a lighter set to use when riding solo, I can no longer recall the actual rates of the two sets of springs but the heavier set were spec'd so that their minimum setting was roughly equivalent to the lighter set at maximum preload. And changing the springs is a pain in the back side so several years ago I purchased a set of Spanish "Betor" shocks with the idea being to swap shocks between light and heavy loads.

I should have known better as years ago I owned several Bultaco motorcycles which stood as testament to three Fundamental facts.
 


A Spanish Amal carb is even more shockingly bad than an English made Amal.

Spanish  made Femsa electrics make Italian Femsa electrics seem reliable and make you pine for the curse of old Joe Lucas
 
Betor shock absorbers are better than nothing, but not by much.
[/list]

Sadly modern Betor shocks are no better than my 1970's era memories of them and frankly seem identical in manufacture.
 
On the other hand, the current set of Konis on the R100 were purchased in 1984 to replace an earlier set, the "new" ones have adjustable damping, which is important in figuring spring rate because you can more easily tolerate an overly firm spring rate if you can adjust damping to match, not a pleasant ride, but a safe and predictable one. The Konis have been rebuilt twice since 1983, once by Koni and more recently by Ikon. There are better shocks around (I've always lusted after Fournales) but price/performance they are hard to beat.
 
I can buy Hagon for the same price, more or less as I can buy Ikon, but the last quote of $AU120 to post them to me was just too much.

Sorry I have rambled more than I intended - I mildly disagree with the comments in the article quoted by Montmill, the reason I disagree is that it is my understanding that all Ikon shocks now feature adjustable damping and it is far, far easier to damp overly heavy springs properly than it is to ride with too soft springing.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |