Non Ethanol Gasoline

[marcmax]

I came home a different route a few days ago and found a gas station 5 minutes from my house selling 89 octane gasoline with no ethanol. The pump was marked "Marine Fuel" but they will sell to anyone. I guess the local fishermen don't want to be 3-4 miles off the coast and find out they had a bad tank of gas.

It is about .40 cents a gallon more than ethanol laced gasoline but in an R65 tank that adds a little over a dollar to the cost of a fill up. I am on my second tank of it and while I don't have any hard evidence or mpg calculations yet, I swear my bike feels like it idles better and accelerates smoother.

Any comments? Is there anything to watch out for? It has been so long since I have had "real" gasoline it is probably just my imagination but it really does feel like it is running better.

[TXRider60]

Wish I could find a source for "real gas" in the Houston area. Don't know how current or accurate this list is, but it doesn't offer much hope in Texas' metro areas:
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX.
  

[Red_Hen]

My understanding is has mixed with up to 10% ethanol is okay if bike is being constantly ridden - it becomes a problem when bikes sit for an extended time - I get unoxygenated fuel when I can and when storing bike for winter & drain gas from car bowls.

Storing a bike with a bone dry tank is also a good idea.

[Barry]

...while I don't have any hard evidence or mpg calculations yet, I swear my bike feels like it idles better and accelerates smoother.  Any comments?

Ethanol has 34% less energy than straight gasoline so in theory your mileage should improve by 3.4 % due to the higher caloric value of the non ethanol fuel  Anecdotal evidence suggests the figure may be higher. For the same reason your mixture will be a touch richer too which might explain the better running.

[Bob_Roller]

When the fuel supply in the Phoenix area changed from MTBE as the oxygenating additive, to 10% ethanol, I lost 5 mpg on the R65 and my Honda CRX  .

15%  ethanol fuel is not far off for the Phoenix and southern California areas .

[tvrla]

As a side note - alcohol is a very viable fuel source. After all, that's what prohibition was all about: getting rural areas away from running farms and farm equipment on Alcohol - not getting people to stop drinking it! Soon as the farmers stills were all smashed, prohibition ended.

Brazil fuels its vehicles mostly on alcohol, from what I've heard - american cars, VWs, everything.

And it's true, alcohol has less oomph - it takes a 15/1 compression ratio to extract the power from it, and that's the reason our vehicles lose power running it. We're just not set up for it here.

Another example - remember the Vincent Black Shadow - a 140 mph bike? Its twin sibling the Black Lightning was good for another five or ten mph - and it ran on alcohol.

[Barry]

Alcohol does have a much higher octane rating so high compression ratios can be used for more power but the mixture needs to be proportionally richer because of the lower calorific value so you still lose out mileage wise compared to gasoline.  I guess alcohol would be more acceptable if they were a bit more honest about it and said look it's got less energy so we are going to charge a price in line with it's calorific value i.e. alcohol content is going to cost you 34% less than straight gasoline content.  It's a problem of the politicians making because trouble is ethanol doesn't cost 34% less to produce.

In the UK the vast majority of people have no clue about ethanol because there is no requirement to display at the pumps whether it's in the fuel or not. No honesty here then. In the end politicians have done so many dumb things in the name of being Green  that I don't believe it's a sensible strategy just because they say so.


Talking of prohibition I'll soon be toasting the new year with a glass of home brewed spirits that my eldest son made. Very palatable stuff too. The boy has a Phd but I didn't know he was this smart.

Happy new year guys.  
 [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[davidpdx]

A lot of the time I spend on the web is wasted but if I hadn't seen the link above, I would not have found the gas station where I filled up with"real" gas yesterday. Haven't had enough time to ride and see if it makes any difference but it will be interesting to see.

[bruce_launceston]

Out here in Oztralia, at least where I am, 10% ethanol fuel is a cheaper alternative that is only available at a few fuel stations.
My local fuel station doesn't have it and I have a choice of 89 octane, 95 octane Premium or 98 octane Ultra Premium all with no ethanol.

I run the R65 on the 95 Premium.

[Barry]

It does seem Australia is taking a more honest approach charging lower prices for E10 than straight gas. Here's a link to a very good article comparing the performance of straight gasoline with E10 and E85 in a test. They mention the price is lower and offset that against the poorer fuel consumption which incidentally is even worse than theory would suggest. E10 should be 3.4% worse but in both city and highway use fuel consumption drops by more than 3.4%. As expected E85 is approx. 30% worse than straight gas.

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/ethanol-put-to-the-test-e85-v-e10-v-premium-unleaded-20110205-1ahgx.html

[oz_johnno]

I wouldnt be using any banana juice in any of my bikes.  Its evil, messes your plastic tank, chews up the rubber bits of your carby

OZ

[bruce_launceston]

Yes but how long before we have no choice? as you can see from the posts from our friends in the USA and UK they don't have much choice.

[rx35285]

The reason for 0% ethanol marine fuel is because of ethanol's affinity for water.

Being from the cornbelt, I appreciate the (mostly) level headed discussion.  I, as a mechanical engineer (and capitalist pig) with decades of energy and environmental experience, hear the argument from all directions.

Before I go farther, let me say I use 5% as my rule of thumb when I have a choice between regular and ethanol.  This correlates to the 3.4% mentioned above but I can't do 3.4 in my head.  Did I say I'm a capitalist pig?

We can't expect dino fuel to be the only $$ solution forever and there are environmental issues.....change of some sort is inevitable.  Do you know anyone who is old enough to remember the use of whale oil as a motor oil additive?  Then  we had to deal with the removal of lead from fuel.

Life goes on.  Let's ride!
Dave

[davidpdx]

Life goes on.Let's ride!
Dave  

Best thing I have read today.

[wa1udg]

The reason for 0% ethanol marine fuel is because of ethanol's affinity for water.

Being from the cornbelt, I appreciate the (mostly) level headed discussion.  I, as a mechanical engineer (and capitalist pig) with decades of energy and environmental experience, hear the argument from all directions.

Before I go farther, let me say I use 5% as my rule of thumb when I have a choice between regular and ethanol.  This correlates to the 3.4% mentioned above but I can't do 3.4 in my head.  Did I say I'm a capitalist pig?

We can't expect dino fuel to be the only $$ solution forever and there are environmental issues.....change of some sort is inevitable.  Do you know anyone who is old enough to remember the use of whale oil as a motor oil additive?  Then  we had to deal with the removal of lead from fuel.

Life goes on.  Let's ride!
Dave

 AS I recall, whale oil was used in ATF, not fuel.