brown headlight and trip odo

[Johnster]

Hey guys,
  2 issues on my '79  R65.

  Bought buy my father in the mid-90's, sat on a porch for a while.
  I annexed it last year and have been fixing things and replacing fluids - its gold (of course) with snowflakes and everything stock.  Someone put a diode on the back of the keyswtich, but I'll ask about that after some more reading..

Problem - the low beam of the headlight is brown, dim and aimed very far down.  The hi-beam is what I expect a high-beam to be (bright, white, wide-ly dispersed...) but the low beam is just brown - like 5v brown.

I've metered the high and low-beam headlight bulb connections, both loaded (10v) and unloaded (11.5 volts) - both with bike not running (no change in color when the bike is running) lowbeam is brown whether the bike is running or not.
    The connections have been hacked apart and soldered a few times, but (I did take a navy nuclear soldering course once...) look solid enough for me to trust them - and if it were a bad connection, then the low beam wouldnt read 10v when connected.

In in FL with my guard unit, and it'd be nice to have a bike thats rideable at night - any thoughts ?

oh, and the trip odometer knob doesnt reset - it only spins the hundred digit - I can't access the airheads.org page (I left my copy at home, Father signed me up when I took the bike from him and I can't find any other articles on speedo repair.

Am I stuck buying into a $200 headlight reflector ? and a new speedo ?

-John

[Bob_Roller]

Have you removed the light bulb and looked at it's condition ?

Normally, a dim headlight is either low voltage, or bad/corroded ground, but the light bulb uses the same ground connection for high and low beam .

So, I think you may have either a bulb, wiring or headlight switch issue .

I've cleaned the reflector with the bulb removed, using a pair of 90 degree needle nose pliers and a paper towel with window cleaner on it .

You mentioned that the low beam was not correctly aimed, but the high beam was, may have a filament that's 'bent' or drooping .

The odometer problem is common on these bikes, the gears are fixed to a shaft and the gears start slipping on the shaft, preventing the digits from moving .

One of our members here, wirespokes repairs these indicators .

The repair requires you to removed a crimped retainer that holds the lens on .

There are no parts available to repair the speedometer, if you break something in the process, unless you have a 'donor' speedometer to rob parts from .

[Johnster]

BobRoller - thanks for the response,
  I forogot to mention that I bought a new bulb a few weeks ago - same problem.

 I never tried too hard to clean the reflector, but I might take another go at that.
  I never questioned the switch either - it is ripe for a take-apart - thank you

I have the speedo apart on my desk right now - I'm stuck at the "gently but forcefully pull the needle away from the face without scratching anything" step.  I've already pulled the glass (it was foggy anyway- something oily...) and pulled a few screws - I can see how it goes together but I can't find the specific gear that is slipping ( or is it some part of the tenths and ones digit - ie 2 gears ?)

Good ideas so far - thank you.

(and I just joined the airheads Facebook page - anyone else on there ? - I might throw pics up there only becuase its easier...)

-John

[Bob_Roller]

If you replaced the bulb, then it's narrowed down to the wiring and switch .

The switch is not 'user friendly' to take apart, I only tried this once when the switch wore to the point that there were no detents when you moved it .

The plastic parts were worn and brittle inside .

If you do attempt to disassemble it, put it in a large plastic bag to contain any errant parts that may decide to leave from spring pressure .

You mentioned the wiring has been 'modified' by a previous owner, I would go to the repair and look things over first .

[montmil]

Double props for Bob's thoughts. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

If you have replaced the headlamp bulb with the proper unit and the low beam is still wimpy, then you probably have a high resistance wiring issue somewhere. Break out the DVOM and start tracing. Confirm the yellow wire to the head lamp bulb is the 12 gauge heavy.

Could be partially broken wire strands in the hi-low switch and/or dirty contacts.

Have you confirmed the headlight relay is in fine fettle? Clean contacts.

Your PO's hacking may extend into the handlebar switch. DO USE a big plastic bag that will accept both your hands, tools and the switch assembly prior to cracking open the assembly. I've been in there on my '81 and it's not difficult when you can keep track of all the tiny parts... and I do mean TINY.

[Barry]

To diagnose if you have an excessive volt drop in the wiring or switches how about making up a bridging wire directly from the battery positive to the bulb. But if as you said the voltage was the same on both filaments that would give equal improvements to both.

I can well imagine the reflector and lens being less than 100% efficient on a 34 year old bike but you would think that would impact on the dipped beam and main beam equally. Still might be worth cleaning. I've heard of washing them with a distilled water and soap solution. In terms of susceptibility to damage from physical cleaning, the reflector is similar to a telescope mirror in that that are both use the same surface plating method which is easily scratched or rubbed through. There is a lot of guidance available on the net if you google "cleaning telescope mirrors" and I think you could wash the reflector without separating it from the lens. I recall Snowbum uses this method.

On my 79 the main beam is noticeably brighter than dip and certainly much more so than the 5W difference in power input. This is probably down to the main beam element being deliberately voltage overrun in expectation of less running hours.  If you check headlamp bulb rated light output it's typical for the main beam to have 35 - 50% more lumens than the dipped. Still yours sounds even worse than that.


Wirespokes is the man for instrument problems and he will chip in with a solution. Going by the airhead forums slipping gear wheels are not unheard of.

[steve hawkins]

On another note the headlight will strip down easily and benefits from a good clean on the inside, both reflector and glass, on occasion.  I have recently done this, 5 years after I last did it.

I have been very impressed with the R65 headlight when cleaned up and working properly.

Cheers

Rev. Light

[Johnster]

Well,
  I did some serious disassembly tonight, and I think I have the trip odometer working.

I submit this to the forum, and expect corrections and gaps in my knowledge...

Tools required - a variety of small flat-bladed screwdrivers. twezers, light oil/grease for relubing as you see fit.  Clean work area where you can not lose stuff on the floor

Symptoms - Trip odometer would not reset, odometer otherwise counts just fine.

Culprit - small spring-loaded clips inide of each of the trip odo wheels - the spring that catches these loses its spring and fails to catch them onto the "trip odometer reset shaft" (my term) when it is turned - therefore, it can't be reset.

Take a look at my lousy-quality pictures

Overall view of the speedo -


FIRST - Pull the speedo from the bracket and put it on your clean workbench

NEXT - Take a picture of the front of the speedo - so you know what the odometer reads and can make sure that it is correct when re-assembled.  Yes, you can roll these odometers back if you take them apart, but there is some strategic inspector's ink so it'll be obvious if someone has ever messed with a speedo once you have it open.

NEXT - You'll need to pry the black metal ring away from the white plastc speedo housing - if you use something hard and plastic, you'll probably do less damage than I did, but since this was my first time, I just hacked it up.  its also on the back.  The goal is to 'loosen' the black metal ring that captures the glass to the metal speedo housing.
  Pry the black metal open (from the back) until you can get the glass off.
  good time to clean the glass right now.

NEXT - Loosen 3 screws from the back - they hold the plastic inner-housing to the metal outer-housing. - pull the insides out and set the metal housing aside

NEXT - Remove the circlip that holds the reset knob onto the reset shaft - its the only circlip visible from the back of the inside of the speedometer.

NEXT - Pull the face off od the speedo innards - it is held on by 2 small black screws and the needle.  The screws are straightforward and the needle is tricky.  I put a few pieces of electrical tape on the gauge face (to protect it) and pried up from 2 sides with 2 small screwdrivers - the needle popped off nicely.  Might be easier if you have a soft-jaw vise, or good thigh muscles...

NEXT - seperate the mechanical innards from the plastic housing - I think that its just 2 screws that do this - see this pic (still has metal installed):

  Loosen ONLY the long screw and the fillet-head screw (in this pic)  - leave the other (small ones) alone, I dont know what they do


NEXT - loosen the screw and rotate away the worm drive that connects the speed input shafts to the main odometer shaft - spin this back and forth and admire the quality german engineering

NEXT - remove the 3 (4?) screws that hold the plastic trip odometer gears to the rest of the innards.  One screw holds on a sheet metal plate, the other 3 go through the plastic into threads in the metal.  Free the trip odometer from everything else.  its ok becuase the trip odo works off an idler gear between the ones digit of the main odometer, and that turns the tenths digit of the trip odometer (which turns the rest of the digits via the small cogs(?) on the small side shaft)

You should get this:


NEXT - You need to remove the reset shaft - as you can see at this point, the reset shaft turns a brass bevel(?) gear, that turns the "trip odometer reset shaft" - ie: the shaft that goes through the middle of all of the trip odo gears.
  This is tough, and I broke a tooth doing it.  My method was something like this - hold the brass gear with one set of pliers, hold the trip reset shaft with another pair of pliers, twist them apart until the shaft is free of the gear - be careful not to lose small parts (now he tells us


NEXT - Once the reset shaft is free, the remaining shaft (the one with the gears and numbers on it) will simply pull out.
  Suffice to say, if you do this, you'll end up with pieces all over the place, but just put some more electrical tape across the numbers and slowly pull the shaft out - be careful and work in a place where you can accidently lose stuff on the floor and still find it (I'm in a hotel room....)  

NEXT - Seperate each digit, flex the spring and re-assemble.
   You'll see that the trip odo reset shaft is not a cylinder - it has an axial slice taken out of it -

(more next post - JcG)

[Johnster]

Each digit wheel is 2 halves, with an angle-spring and 2 brass cutouts - this pic might show you what is inside:



a 'catch' is the funny-shaped brass piece, and the 'spring' is the piece of metal that looks like an 'angle' symbol.

See how one spring does 2 things:
1) it pushes the 'catch' piece into the shaft, so that when the shaft rotates in the correct direction, it catches and spins the digit.
2) it pushes the other catch outward, which makes the thing click in defined increments.

You'll need to pull each digit (the ones that done move with the reset know) apart, bend the spring gently in the 'closed' direction (ie- make the angle smaller) and re-install.
  Yeah, this is small and tough, a magnifying glass may be needed, but think of the money you are saving

To pull a digit apart, you'll need to pry and remove a washer that is on one side of the digit - dont mangle this too much becuase you need it to go back on to hold the halves back together later.

When you have the spring re-sprung, and the spring and catches re-installed, press the digit-halves back together, rotate them as you do and the 'clicker' catch will move inward into place.

NEXT - replace the washer and hope that it holds the halves together.
   I got pretty lucky that all the washers seemed to be holding.  The tenths digit (different than the others) didnt hold well, but it also has a spring holding things together.  They also get tighter when re-installed in the plastic housing.

NEXT - put everything back together in the same order you took it apart.  Put the reset shaft through the gears.  remember the white plastic spacer and brass spacers on each end - consult the picture above for order - it should all make sense if you are in the middle of it.

Re-install the reset shaft and its brass gear - I used pliers around the small end of the shaft (touching the gear) then I tapped the knob end of the shaft (with the square hole) until the gear seated itself far enough down.

re-install the sheet metal stamping (and screw) that locates the top of the reset stub-shaft

Re-assemble the trip odo onto the main odometer innards.  

Install the innards back onto the plastic housing.

Install the reset knob and circlip

put the face and needle back on (2 small black screws)

Put the metal housing back on

Put the face and capture ring back on - you'll probably need to tap it back into place with a soft hammer or rubber-covered pliers grips

bolt back onto the bike and test.


This is woeful, under detailed and blurry, I understand and am sorry - but its 1am and I didnt want to forget anything.  Please fire away with your comments and I'll try to edit my post for future use.

-John G.

[steve hawkins]

Cleaning the inside of your headlight will be a breeze after this!

Rev. Light

[Barry]

Impressive work John.

[Johnster]

Yes,
  I already pulled the headlight apart (tore the rubber gasket in a few places...) and gently wiped it out.  It was very clean and shiny EXCEPT the entire 'center reflector' - that thing has a dirty/galvanized finish all over - it doesnt look like it was every shiny at all.

Is it designed this way ?

The reflector was pretty clean, and once I gently seperated the large reflector from the glass lens (which was *slightly hazy*) it was all very easy to see and get at.

I conitnue to love these airheads - you can fix anything on a desk in a hotel room with some basic tools

I'm gonna try putting it all back together and running - I'm not getting my hopes up about the light (it probably is voltage...) but at least the trip odo will work.

-John

[steve hawkins]

Yes my 'centre reflecter' is like that.  Its more of a blocker than a reflector.  You will definately notice a brighter headlight whichever bulb you use.  My parking light has not worked for ages.  One day I will fix it.

Keep your mouth shut when riding at dusk/evening or you might get to swallow some of the moths and bugs attracted to the new brighter headlight!

Cheers

Rev. light

[Barry]

We had a thread a while back about the centre "glare shield" which is what it's purpose turned out to be. Once you start looking at other headlamps many have something similar if not quite so large.