oh dear....... a tale of timing chain woes

[oz_johnno]

yeah Guys I will let you know how it goes.

what I should have done

1) remove alternator and bean can (marking bean can with paint marker)
2)remove the timing cover
3)TURNED THE MOTOR BY HAND until OT pops up in the timing window
4)remove tensioner and guide
5)marked the position of both sprockets with the paint marker.
6) remove the old master link and connect the new chain to the old.
7) Rotate the engine so that the new chain replaces the old.
Disconnect the old chan and install the new master link
9)reassemble.
10) Turn motor over by hand to feel for any mechanical contact

I see now where I went wrong, next time will be better'er.  I hope this doesn't cost me too much as I have a rabid ex suing me for half a house.... This was the last thing I needed

OZ

[montmil]

My personal recommendations and revisions to your timing chain adventure list...

A-1: Remove battery ground cable. There is always hot power at the diode board.

A-3: Confirm cam sprocket "dot' is at 12 o'clock and right-side piston is at TDC.

A-6: Stuff toweling into all crankcase openings to prevent the timing chain master link bits -particularly the "flying fish"- from swimming in the crankcase.

A-7: I would definitely council not to attempt to rotate the engine to draw the new chain around the sprockets. Odds are strong that a tooth could be skipped during the engine rotation exercise and you've then effectively knockered the cam timing.

A-8: See A-7.

Just my $0.02 worth of experiences. YMMV

[oz_johnno]

Thanks Mont.
I will give the Guy I sent the bike to about a week to diagnose the problem.  I imagine it wouldnt take that long, but when I spoke to him he mentioned that he had only just gotten back from holidays......

OZ

[Bob_Roller]

I don't know how well this works, but a coworker that has been working on motorcycles for about 55 years told me this trick .

Round off, or bevel the pins on the old master link, insert the link on the front side of the chain to get the links lined up, then put the new master link in from the rear, shouldn't have to fight to get it lined up .

Never tried it, so again no idea how it would work .

All I can remember, was that it was a pain to get the master link started when I replaced the timing chain on my '81 R65 15 years ago .

I saw this a few years ago and wondered if it would be of any help with the masterlink .

http://www.mikesxs.net/product/35-0130.html

[oz_johnno]

We all want to know what the final outcome is, Oz. Keep us posted, will ya?

Just got word..... the timing chain was only 1 tooth out.  The guy is gouging me $285, which I will give him next wed.

Oh well, a lesson brought is a lesson taught  

[montmil]

I guess it could've been worse, OzJohnno.

When you take a partially disassembled and non-running bike to a mechanic and tell him, "Me and a mate worked on it." Well, he's really out of the information loop and under your gun to make it right.

Don't know what the hourly labor charge is in Oz but 'round here it's anywhere from $90.00USD on up. Cheaper some places but not many you'd trust. My guess is he's charging you for about three hours of his knowledge and skill set.

Bottom line, he had you by the short hairs but most likely treated you fairly. Maybe go easier on the wrench twister. He has expenses to pay, too. And he did fix it. [smiley=2cents.gif]

[georgesgiralt]

+1 ! It seems fair to me. He had to find the fault, then fix it, then reassemble everything and check for perfect operation, so ......

[oz_johnno]

Thanks guys,
'round these parts (always wanted to say that) you find they charge between $100 & 120 bucks an hour for a mechanic.  

I wasn't going to blow he guy up, my disappointment was more that the job didn't go well.

As I said, I got a rabid ex wife who is coming at me for half the house, so it couldn't have come at a worse time.

OZ

[tvrla]

I feel for you - my divorce days were black ones indeed! But all is not black - things will improve and eventually get much better than before. Trust me! So do what you can to focus on uplifting things and stuff that makes you happy. For me, I immersed myself in my bikes - I worked a day a week at a BMW MC wrecker, fixed other's bikes, fiddled with mine and rode as much as possible. One other thing that helped a lot was taking long walks each morning. It was magic! Hard to describe, but I could start out with three or four conflicting emotions - anger, grief, wanting to do bodily harm, etc, - and come back completely cheerful and be fine all day. Pure magic!

Yeah, there will be mistakes made and wasted time, money and resources - but focus on getting through this because on the other side is happier times.

By the way - not to make you wrong - but you shoulda listened to us about the cam timing being off... :-/

[montmil]

God love you, Spokes... Dispensing psychological care from the handlebars of a BMW. The doctor is on the bike.

I've been to the Bid D myself and I don't mean Dallas. Now where's that damned expensive t-shirt?

[Barry]

I reckon riding bikes for so many years has helped keep me sane.  Bikes put balance back in your life like nothing else.

[oz_johnno]

I kind of felt like there was a piece missing from me while Beryl has been gone.
But while we are talking things philosophical/pyschological, I have been reading zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.  In the book, the main character talks 3 types of thought, the classical, romantic and quality.  He saw the motorcycle representing the nexus of classical thought (the understanding of the inner workings), romantic thought (the way you feel when you ride), coming together to form Quality.

This to me was like a bolt out of the blue as it explained to me why I liked to ride the R65 more than my Ducati 2010 multistrada 1200s even though my friends say the multistrada is a much better bike.  I do most of the classical (maintenance) work myself.  Add this to the romantic (theres somthing about the old R's that speaks to a bloke and says 'this is what motorcycling is about'.  That and the fact that I inherited the bike from my dad) and together they equal QUALITY.

The multistrada is a black box.  I hand it to someone else when the lcd screen starts flashing 'maintenance due'. In terms of classical + romantic = Quality, I'm missing one of the terms of the equation, so things dont quite add up

This has been a learning curve, but I shall have another crack at the timing chain when it is due once more.

OZ

[Session101]

I need to do this to my bike as well.

$400 was the quote for the labor and parts from
http://bavarianmotorcycleworkshop.com/

cycle shops here in utah are really sparce

i was going to order my parts from huckys in flordia, hopefully i can do this myself, i would like to save $$, the parts cost around $100. But i have never done something like this, i figure that as long as i mark the teeth correctly, i should be fine right? im going to follow the manual i have on the bike

[montmil]

Does your $400 estimate include a new crankshaft sprocket and bearing? If this is the first chain replacement, it may be a good idea to replace the smaller of the two sprockets. The cam sprocket seems to last like, oh, forever. So the four C-notes doesn't sound outta line.

I purchased my timing chain kit from Motobins. Current price is $55.00USD. There are a few bits in the kit that many folks overlook when ordering one piece at a time.
Part No.10160 http://www.motobins.co.uk Good photo of all the required materials.
Also Part No.10402 Bearing $13.40USD & Part No.25300 Crankshaft sprocket $40.20, if required.

That will leave around $300 for labor; not too far off from Oz Johnno's tab... except I think he already had the parts.

[tvrla]

Now where's that damned expensive t-shirt?

Don't tell me she took that too!!!!!