cleaning out motor

[thessler]

Hi

 I am working on my newley aquired r 65. Got it with a busted off valve and the top of the piston has a big whole in it.

I just pulled the oil pan and cleaned it out, there was plenty of metal in the bottom. Pulled out the oil filter and cleaned out the housing, some fine fragments in there.

Question : is there anything else to clean out or I should be looking at ?
Looking up from the bottom the engine in general is clean and I see no metal fragments stuck to the oil screen on the pump.

  Thanks for any advice, Tom

[montmil]

If I'm reading between the lines correctly, you're wondering about the probability of absolutely no metal remaining in the engine's critical areas beyond what you've already removed. Am I close? Perhaps thinking of rolling the dice that there's no aluminum or steel bits left to hand grenade the engine a second time?

You already need a complete replacement head and, perhaps, a cylinder to mate up with the new piston and rings, plus various new gaskets and install materials. Can be pricey items, even gently used. Hum... Any broken metal hiding in those push rod tubes? Bent con rod? Damaged bearings? Who knows where all that metal junk is hiding?

You have not mentioned the year of your R65 but depending on the year, there are two different cylinder wall materials treatments. You'll need the correct cylinder to match your model year.

Based on how cheaply you bought the bike plus the overall condition of the rest of the scooter, only you can make the decision as to assumption of risk. If it were my bike and I planned to keep it, I'd want to be certain as the repair is going to smoke your credit card. If the bike's fairly doggy, I'd part it out.  [smiley=2cents.gif]

Next witness, step forward.

Monte

[tvrla]

With a holed piston, it's a good idea to check the rod as well. It may have gotten bent. And while you're in there with the rod off, the condition of the crank can also be checked.

Things like heads and cylinders show up fairly frequently for good prices, so don't let Monty scare you off. But I would want to make very sure most of the swarf gets cleaned out, as it sounds like you're trying to do.

There are plugs, and I don't recall exactly where they are, but there are two or three where you can access oil galleys. Remove the oil pressure sender as well. Then run solvent through those passages and do everything possible to ensure they're cleaned.

I'd probably also remove the timing chest and clean in there. Make sure the Oil Pressure Relief valve is working correctly.

The cylinders were changed to Nikasil around 1981, as were the heads changed to larger valves the same time. Make sure you get the correct parts for your bike.

[thessler]

Thanks for the replys.

It is a 1984. I have already picked up the parts I need to re assemble.
I bought the proper cylinders and pistons but I didn't know about the valve size change until after I bought the heads. So the small heads are going on. It's my understanding that nothing will really change, I will just loose 5 HP. That I really don't care about.

The rod looks good and the rod bearing feels tight,  so I'm thinking just clean out what I see and fire it up. Just wondering if there is another area that I should be looking. I really don't want to disassemble the engine just for inspection purpose. Although I will if I have to, if this will prevent a disaster down the road.

  Thanks, Tom

[tvrla]

From your first post I get the idea the engine does need a good cleaning. A lot of metal in the pan tells me that.

Why take a chance of, minimumly, wearing things out quicker? Is this a quick turn-around project - get it running and sell for a profit? And don't look back?

I'm afraid the only way to be sure is to remove the galley plugs and clean everything out. Make damn sure the engine is clean! Not hope it is. Removing the timing chest isn't a big job and you'll get to inspect the cam chain and tensioners at the same time.

Here's some data for you on the oil flows in the engine.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/oilsketch.htm

My point is that unless you KNOW it's all clean, it's possible swarf will float around and attack main bearings, rod bearings, oil pump, lifters, and a bunch of other expensive stuff. And speaking of oil pump, if metal filings got in there, you may be looking for another block. The oil pump gears ride in the aluminum block and if the block gets scored, oil pressure goes DOWN.

It's much better to do the job right the first time, than a re-do with all the expensive machining and parts second time around.

[thessler]

wirespokes thanks

This is not a quick turn around job, I would never do that to someone !
I intend on keeping this that is why I am asking advice from experianced people to try and do this right. I will locate the oil plugs that you mentioned and try to find metal.

I'm not sure but i'm thinking if this thing blew a big whole in the piston i'm guessing it was shut off right after that, so i'm wondering if the metal actually did get sucked up into the motor or not.

Sounds like I should pull the oil pump and inspect those gears.

Last question : where is the timing chest ? I will remove it and inspect it I have the time there is no rush on this like mentioned I would rather do this right the first time.

Is this timing chest in the front behind the generator ?
 I'm guessing start at the front and keep taking apart until you see a timing chain ?

  Thanks for the input and the diagrams I will study them , Tom

[montmil]

As old NY Yankees catcher Yogi Berra once said, "It's deja vu all over again."

Currently on advrider is a thread titled Oil Pan Swarf. Bad stuff gets everywhere.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771587

[tvrla]

I'm glad you're not one of those to slap it together, get it running and pass it on to someone else. Let them deal with it! ;-)

Attacking the chore with the correct expectations is half the battle right there. If I think I'll get it running this afternoon and it takes two days more, I'm not real pleased. But if I figure on two days and it's done this afternoon, then I'm flipped out.

Same here - realizing the scope of the job gets rid of unrealistic expectations.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who appreciates your taking on such a project - it's all too easy for guys to look at it monetarily and figure it's not worth it and part it out. You'll probably not get your time out of it, but the satisfaction will make it ok.

The timing chest is the piece just behind the timing cover - or front cover. It requires removing the diode board, rotor & stator, and bean can (ignition sensor). You'll need the special rotor removal bolt - don't use a gear puller! I've seen what those do to rotors!

It's a fairly easy job getting in there. It's more trouble pulling the transmission to check out the oil pump, but still not horrible. It's easier pulling the rear engine mount bolt than moving the swing arm back when pulling the transmission.

And, as a word of caution, before removing the flywheel (the flywheel must be removed to access the oil pump), block the front of the crank so it can't possibly move forward. Major problems can ensue should that not be done.

And don't worry about bugging us over every little thing - some of those 'little things' can turn into big nightmares if not handled correctly. These beemers are funny that way. Mostly they're very easy to work on, but there can be booby traps. Some important things are glossed over in the manuals and other unimportant things are made to look very critical. They'll tell you not to re-use bolts or fasteners when it really is ok, and then others should be replaced, so you never know until you've been there. Practices have changed over the years and there have been subtile changes. You can look at two parts and think they're the same (why would they make them different?) yet one will work for you and not the other. Don't assume anything!