newbie clutch Q:

[Justin B.]

Basically you want the "throw" of the lever on the transmission to be about in the middle.  I adjust the bolt on the lever so the lever is just short of being vertical, maybe 5 degrees or so.  I then adjust the lever end for the proper freeplay.  I think the book says something about a measurement from the tranny case to lever for setting the "bolt" but I've never paid attention to that.  I think that is given as a guide to get the bolt set to the point where the lever is in the "middle" of it's travel.

[size=18]HOW MUCH LEVER FREEPLAY DO YOU HAVE?[/size]

[Biocruiser]

I don't know how to measure how much "freeplay" I have. With the cable disconnected from the lever on the back of the gearbox and with the nut on the back of the lever backed out all the way the lever rests on the cross bar attached to the drive shaft and can be pulled forward a few inches from that position. Here are pictures of the lever all the way forward...

[Biocruiser]

and at rest...

[nhmaf]

Can you show a picture closeup of where the clutch arm pushes on the back end of the bolt that goes into the pushrod (back, center of transmission) ?
  I think that maybe you have the screwed too far in ?   IF the adjustments are all in spec but you cannot get the clutch to disengage then it is very possible that
the bearing that is in the back of the transmission that the pushrod pushes on is worn out or busted.

As far as the lubrication of the pushrod goes, I put a bit of moly paste grease on the tip end that goes into the center of the pressure plate, and I usually put a thin coat
of high temp bearing grease on the shaft where it passes through the transmission.   Once the transmission is full of good oil, that will also help keep things nice and slippery.
Are you certain that the pushrod itself is not "bent" slightly - it isn't a common failure, but I've seen it happen once..

[MrRiden]

Geeze, help me out here! There is a specific measurement to be taken between the end of the clutch lever and the end of the clutch cable outer cover. Gosh I just can't find it! For some reason 102mm comes to mind but don't trust me. Where in the flaming hell is that diagram? All the other adjustments revolve around this spacing. I also remember something about a 4deg angle on the lever. I'll continue a furious search 'cuz I know I've seen it before.
rich

[nhmaf]

The textbook way to do this is to first adjust the clutch arm and cable length at the transmission, per the diagram included in this thread we discussed about 6 months ago:
http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1189542314/2#2

Maybe something in that thread will shed some light on this problem..

[Justin B.]

biocruiser, freeplay is defined as how much can you pull the clutch lever in at the handlebar before it starts to stiffen up.  Sorry, but I'm not sure I have another way to explain it so maybe somebody else can help me here...

[Biocruiser]

I think the problem may lie with the pushrod... it doesn't seem to come "out" of the back of the transmission when at rest... so the arm isn't changing it's position when you squeeze the clutch handle. With the bolt on the back of the clutch lever screwed all the way in it moves it enough to make the clutch partially disengage but not enough to fully disengage. If the clutch arm at the back of the transmission is removed how far should the rod protrude from the the case when at rest?

[Justin B.]

I don't believe it does so you may have a problem with your throwout bearing...

[Biocruiser]

Before I bu any more parts I don't actually need... here's what the pushrod looks like at rest. It does move a little in and out (maybe 2mm? but that's about it... should it have more movement?

[Bob_Roller]

2 mm of movement isn't going to dis-engage the clutch.

Can you pull the pushrod back a bit and take a look at the throw-out bearing ?

There is a threaded hole in the end of the pushrod to thread a tool into it, and extract it, but I'm sure it's a fine metric thread, not easily found, but if you get something in there, if you 'bugger up' the threads, it's not going to make a difference in the operation of the pushrod.

Does the bolt that the arm rides on gouged or worn out in the area where arm sits on it ?

Are the 'ears' on the transmission case that the bolt goes through have round holes, or are they elongated ?

[Ed Miller]

2 mm of movement isn't going to dis-engage the clutch.

Can you pull the pushrod back a bit and take a look at the throw-out bearing ?

There is a threaded hole in the end of the pushrod to thread a tool into it, and extract it, but I'm sure it's a fine metric thread, not easily found, but if you get something in there, if you 'bugger up' the threads, it's not going to make a difference in the operation of the pushrod.

snip

On mine I can pull the push rod out with my bare hands.  

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Biocruiser -

I also have a '79.  They are different from the 1980-on models (or is that 1981....)



With the clutch actuation lever (13) removed from the rear of the transmission, along with the small rubber boot (7), you should not be able to push in on that "post" (5) at all.  You are pushing against the clutch spring.

What you SHOULD be able to do is pull out that small "post" (5) from the rear of the tranny.
When you do, you should get a round metal piston (also 5) with a rubber seal (6) in a groove around it's circumference.
With that removed, examine the face of the piston for any damage.  It should be smooth.

Now you need a small magnet-on-a-stick.  You take that and put it in the hole where the piston came out.
You should withdraw a nice, flat, radial bearing (4).  If you get a bunch of pieces of junk, you found your problem.

With the bearing removed, you should be able to remove the inner bearing surface (3).  It is a flat disc with a hole in the middle for the actuating (push) rod (1) that runs though the center of the transmission input shaft.
With that disc removed, there is no more you can dismantle with the transmission in the bike, or the swingarm in place.  The push rod is too long.

I hope I have not repeated too much of what might have already been said.
The bearing is not expensive, and should be examined every few years as they do self-destruct if neglected.  

A drop or two of motor oil on the bearing upon reassembly is all that is needed.  Don't forget to grease up the lever (zerk fitting () when you are finished.  
Also a dab of grease where the cable stay sits in the lower lever.

Clean and grease the cable's pivot point in the hand lever at the top.  
THIS SHOULD BE AN ANNUAL CHECK!
The cable stay should ROTATE in the lever, otherwise it is putting a strong binding force on the cable that will eventually break it.


klikabl pik

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

O.K., I just read through the thread.


Now, if you determine that your clutch is worn (I have my doubts) it means quite a bit of money, but you should not replace the clutch disc without replacing the facing surfaces; the pressure plate and the compression ring.  Some people try and save money in this area, but regret it later.  The spring should also be measured by laying it flat on a piece of glass, and measuring with a caliper the height of the tips.  I cannot find the spec.

I do know that the clutch parts in our early R65's might be considered "more robust" than the later models.  We have a much heavier flywheel, and the complete clutch assembly is quite different.  There are advantages to both.  No biggie.  Especially now that you have the correct disc!

Do not try to save money, here, if the disc assembly is truly your problem.  Replace all of the parts you need, and you will probably never need to worry about them for as long as you own the bike.


klikabl pik


A VERY important item that has been overlooked, is the condition of the input shaft splines, and their mating surface on your original clutch plate.  If the teeth were all dry and rusty, that is probably 80% of your problem right there.  On your next trip out, stop at a Honda motorcycle dealer (call ahead) and pick up some Honda Moly 60 spline lube (or equivalent).

kliky on da piky®

You also don't want the splines to be worn too thin.  They can fail, leaving you stranded.  In Seattle, if you ride in the rain, I would lube them (pull the tranny, do it right) every year.  That means cleaning them off real good, and applying a thin layer of new grease.  The grease is ONLY applied to the input shaft of the transmission, NOT the mating splines of the clutch disk.  If you grease that, excess grease will be thrown out onto the clutch disk.

Also put a small dab of grease on the tip of the throwout rod where it pushes against the pressure plate (2, above).


These are all things that should have been attended to before your very first ride of significance.  Buying a used bike is a very big unknown, and at the very least, a full fluid change and close examination of the tires is in order.  More than likely your steering head and swingarm bearings need attention, in order to enjoy your beautiful bike to it's fullest.  I love the color!

You have friends in Seattle that you have not met, yet.  There are quite a few R65's there!


Pull your rear wheel and examine your final drive splines!!!

Here is an article on final drive splines.  Duane's site is very good, but he retired before the R65 was born, so there is not much for the stuff that is unique to our bikes.  And there is a lot!


If you don't have an Under-Seat Owner's Manual, get one right now!  It is loaded with valuable information.  See the sticky post at the top of this page!  I will hound you until you get one!

What tire pressures are you running?  The information that came with the bike is for 30 year-old tire technology!!!  I run about 35 pounds.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

From my BMW Technical Data Book, for R65 up to 1981:

Clutch play at hand lever  2+ 0.5mm (0.8 +/- 0.02 in.)

Cable length at release arm  201 + 2mm (7.9 + 0.08 in.)


Same specs for up to 1984, and 1985 and up, also.