Author Topic: newbie clutch Q:  (Read 8814 times)

Biocruiser

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newbie clutch Q:
« on: February 25, 2008, 04:56:54 PM »
I picked up my first BMW last week... it's a '79 R65 with about 55k on it. I managed to drive it home and replaced the battery the next day. That seemed to be all it needed right away... then a week later I was about to head out of the city with a few pals for a few hours and... the clutch failed... It made it home... but it wasn't fun. Anyways. I just pulled the transmission and drained the gear oil. It was greenish tan in color... that's not right, is it? What weight gear oil to others run in there R65s?

airhead

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 05:18:07 PM »
Hi Biocruiser, welcome to the forum.
It appears you have water in the transmission, that would cause the tan colour. The green oil could be a synthetic oil or another brand I'm not familiar with. I run Rock Oil GRO fully synthetic, which is green. Any 80w90 grade gear oil will work, though I do prefer the fully synth. You do realise whatever you use, the same is used for the driveshaft tube and rear drive!?!
As for the water in the gearbox, the most common entry point is the speedo drive on the right hand side where the battery earth is attached. The boot becomes old and stretched and allows the water to literally pour down the speedo cable and into the box. New boots are only a couple dollars and easy to install so make sure you get one.

Bill....................;-)

Offline MrRiden

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 05:48:54 PM »
Ditto to what Bill said. When I first drained my tranny the lube was the color of a double latte from starbucks. An added defense to prevent water infiltration is to schemere some grease under the speedo boot before setting it home. Also if your speedo is missing the little rubber cover for the trip meter reset button water can get in that way. The speedo cable will act as a conduit for any moisture that enters there dumping it into your gearbox. I've used Valvoline semi synthetic 80w-90. Use a GL-5 rated oil as per BMW. I've seen it said that GL-4 is preferred due to Bronze parts being affected by GL-5 but I went with the manual recommendation on blind faith.
rich
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Biocruiser

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 05:59:33 PM »
Great info... I guess I'm glad I cracked the rear cover on the transmission even though it appears I didn't need to to get at the clutch (doh). I guess I could have read the manual a bit more carefully before I started turning wrenches... on that note. I just got the friction plate out and it doesn't look too bad... I don't have a caliper to give an exact measurement but it seems reasonably thick. In any case I already ordered another one. Before I pulled this apart I check to make sure the clutch cable had full range of motion, etc., and it did. Now I'm wondering if the clutch "rod" that goes through the transmission might need adjustment? Do these rods need maintenance? How much play should I have on the clutch side of the transmission? Thanks! The sun is out and I'm in the garage!!!

Side question... there's an electrical connection on the bottom of the transmission as seen in my picture. Is this the neutral indicator (which wasn't functioning before).

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 06:37:43 PM »
Welcome B-c,

The pushrod that goes through the transmission, should be removed cleaned and lubed, I don't know if it really matters what is used, as I used gear oil for 20 years, with no problem, a high quality grease would work as well.

I have an '81 model, so I'm not familiar with the bearing at the back of the transmission that the rod goes through on a '79 model, they are different, but it should be cleaned and lubed as well.

While you've got the bike apart this far, you may want to think about replacing the rear main seal, and the oil pump cover o-ring.

As far as gear oil, a name brand quality oil is sufficient,  I used Castrol gear oil for about 20 years, for convenience, I use BMW gear oil in both bikes, makes it simpler for me !!!

I think that a quality oil changed on a regular schedule, will do the job .

You made the comment that the clutch 'failed' , what exactly were the symptoms ??
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 06:38:51 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS ?
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Biocruiser

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 06:51:45 PM »
Symptoms were... smelled a little clutch. This I attributed to the bike having sat for some months before I bought it and some dust building up. Didn't think much of it. Then I noticed when coming to a stop that I needed to apply the brakes in order to keep the bike from moving forward (bad sign). A few minutes later I pulled out of a gas station and the bike died as a came to a stop in traffic. I tried to pull in the clutch and start the bike but this caused the starter to engage and "move" the bike forward. I put it in neutral and started the bike no problem, then gave myself a little running start and put it in second. While not the smoothest looking, this enabled me to get home. Each time I came to a stop light or sign I had to stall the bike or manage to get it in neutral before stalling. Each time a started I had to do the running start trick. I checked to make sure the clutch lever was engaging and it wasn't a cable issue... and it wasn't as far as I could tell. My next culprit was the friction plate itself, though it does appear to have a fair amount of material left... which makes me think of the rod... you mentioned replacing the rear main seal and oil pump cover oil ring... is it best to get these from the local BMW dealer or... any good online sources? Is that kosher to ask on here? Don't want to make any vendors angry or anything, just new...

Offline MrRiden

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 07:25:06 PM »
Quote
is it best to get these from the local BMW dealer or... any good online sources? Is that kosher to ask on here? Don't want to make any vendors angry or anything, just new...
One of my favorite things about R65.org is that there doesn't seem to be anyone here with a primary commercial interest. A quick look at your local BMW dealers site[Ride West] would make me wonder if they are classic friendly. You can certainly ring them up. Everyone here has a fav or two on line parts houses. I like Hammersley BMW in Va, and A&S BMW in California. Both have websites with parts "fiche" on line. I'm wondering why your clutch was dragging so. Broken pressure plate / spring?
rich
http://www.webparts.com/cycles/
http://www.ascycles.com/illustrated_parts_catalog_main.aspx
Oh, the electrical connection is indeed the Neutral switch
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 07:27:09 PM by MrRiden »
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 07:37:01 PM »
I'm not particularly good at troubleshooting clutch problems, but did you have any problems shifting ?

I seem to remember a technique to release a 'stuck' clutch, but it eludes me at this moment, it seems that it isn't an uncommon occurance with bikes that have sat idle for awhile, especially when it's in a damp environment, like the Pacific Northwest US area.

As far as parts, it's probably less hassle, to go to a local, or on-line dealer to get parts, unless you have a local non-BMW source for common parts like seals and bearings.

Get well acquainted with the illustrated parts catalogs, because , unless you have an airhead 'friendly' dealer near you, you are pretty much on your own for researching parts for a 29 year old bike !!!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 07:59:14 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS ?
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Biocruiser

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 08:36:59 PM »
Seems like the natural position for the clutch is off... and that's where I was stuck. I picked up a gel battery from Ride West and talked with their service dept. about having them check the points and adjust the timing on the bike. After a bit of back and forth they determined that since we were talking about a 79 bike the normal shop fees would be adjusted 15% and they weren't able to find a scheduled maintenance sheet for an r65. So... I bought a manual. ::) Hopefully they'll be a good source for parts. Thanks for the links to the fiche. That should help!
Cheers!

jvwilliams

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 08:41:12 PM »
Adjusted up or down?

Biocruiser

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 08:41:18 PM »
here it is:

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 08:49:26 PM »
Nice looking bike !!!

Appears that it has been well cared for !!

Not a 'barn' find bike.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 08:50:03 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS ?
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Biocruiser

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 09:21:25 PM »
adjusted up 15% for "pre-1980" bikes. i guess that makes sense, but I'm a hands-on vehicle owner...

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 09:37:52 PM »
Quote


Side question... there's an electrical connection on the bottom of the transmission as seen in my picture. Is this the neutral indicator (which wasn't functioning before).

Yes it is the $33 ^%$#@ neutral switch.  Yours has a broken tab which is why it doesn't work.  Usually they work but leak due to unsuspecting owners puting them in too tight.  Get a fresh crush washer (always use fresh crush washers) and put it in snug.  They last one I put in mine (about two weeks ago) had a coating of JB Qwick weld around the posts on the top to help prevent it from leaking tranny fluid.

Change out the tranny drive shaft, and rear drive oil once a year to make sure you dont have water problems.  The boot you need it part number 61138080160.  I use some heaqt shink tubing around the top (from Radio Shack) to help keep the water out.  Some use a tye wrap.  Some use some Blue RTV.  My tranny, drive shaft, rear drive oil get changed twice a year as I use a heavier weight oil in the summer months. But then my bike is much heavier than the standard R65.  80W90 should be just fine.  Just don't forget to change it.

Good luck.
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: newbie clutch Q:
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 10:24:11 PM »
I know clutches can fail in the engaged position, but you should have seen some broken stuff when you pulled the tranny.  The symptoms sound to me more like a bad clutch cable or not enough free play adjustment.  Do you have the owner's manual showing how to adjust the rear lever to be 201 mm from a bolt on the tranny, using the handlebar adjuster, then to adjust the lever free play using the little adjuster behind the tranny?  

Good luck, anyway!
Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR