My baby let me down today...ignition problems?

[msbuck]

      I signed up for a motorcycle course (BikeSafeNC) where you team up with a State Highway patrol motor officer   for an 'accessment' of your riding skills.  It was a dreary drizzly day today and the bike started up just fine this morning with no symptoms of any problems all the way into the school.  We spent a couple of hours in the classroom and when it was time to go out and ride with the motor officer, my bike did something very strange.  It turned over, but wouldn't start.  I tried twice, then the third time...nothing, nada, zip.  Not a hint of any power at all.  I checked the kill switch, checked the gas, turned the bike off and on, nothing.  Graham told me to put it back into neutral, I did and Viola! she started right up.  Wierd.

So we head out for our ride.  About 10 miles or so out, she quits as I'm running down the road.  No hint of anything wrong at all.  So I pull over to the side ( with the blue lights flashing behind me...this time I was thankful for them!!     ) The officer gets off his bike and we check the kill switch, the gas, etc.  I put the bike back in neutral and she starts right up!  [smiley=undecided.gif]  Made it through the rest of the ride just fine, no problems.  

We get back to the classroom, have a few minutes of accessment and then head back out for the bikes to go for lunch.  The bike starts just fine, no problems, I get about 1 mile down the road and she just quits again...just like before.  Only this time, I drop it into neutral (I know what to do this time, I thought!!) and she cranks and cranks and cranks as I get slower and slower and slower.  Nothing.  I finally pull over and push her into the nearest parking lot (of the ABC Commission - boy, I could use a drink about now!) and leave her there as I get a ride to lunch in the SHP Patrol car.  

Well, after lunch we've decided that even if it starts back up, I'm not willing to finish up with the final ride and end up stranded in  a place that could be very dangerous.  We take the remaining classroom instruction and head home for the trailer.  Got her loaded up and back home.  She still turns over, but no start.  I guess tomorrow (once it dries out...) we'll take the tank off and check for spark at the plug, then the coil and ignition box.  Only thought I have at this point is a cracked coil that water got into.  Graham also suspects the ignition box.    I'm so sad She let me down and I didn't get to finish my school!  

[Justin B.]

Bummer, if your coil is cracked moisture could infiltrate and cause it to go out.  Kinda strange about kicking it into neutral those few times but could just be a coincidence.  I would think removing the tank and inspecting it for cracks is in order.  Also, put your meter (low ohms scale) across the primary windings (DC wires disconnected), should read in the vicinity of 1.5 ohms.  The '82 LS we picked up last summer would not run due to an open primary winding.

[msbuck]

OK, just done the basics so far.  But she started right up today...it's not raining and it's in the garage.  Checked for spark at the plugs, got it.  Check for gas, dropped the float bowls to be sure there was no trash or water, all ok there.  Pulled the air filter to be sure I didn't have a nest, it's fine.  Checked for cracks in the coil, sprayed with water to check as well, all's well there.  Haven't done any of the electrics checks yet, but that'll come later.  THe other thing I noticed is that the ring that secures the ignition (key) in place is lose.  I think I'll check that as well, maybe something's come loose.  I'll check the kill switch as well.  

It's tough when it's so intermittant.  I still think she just doesn't like the rain...  

[Bob_Roller]

If your problem gets a little more involved, I made a post about 5 pages back under the title electronic ignition canister, and the link provides some real easy trouble shooting guides to determine if your 'bean can' is faulty or if the ignition control unit is bad.

[nhmaf]

Can you take a peek under the transmission at the transmission neutral switch connections ?
I didn't think that the starter would crank if the clutch switch was bad, or if there was a
problem with the connections to it, but, it might be a not-too-difficult external troubleshooting
step before you dig too far in.   I also don't see how it would cause the engine to cut out
on you like that either, but the multiple references to shifting back into neutral made me
think of it.

I'd also carefully check the starter/kill switch, as you seem to have on your plans.  I haven't
had one go bad on me yet on a BMW, but have had to take apart/repair or replace them on
some japanese bikes I used to have.

[airhead]

The neutral switch will stop the starter motor from turning, so you can discount that, it was just coincidence.
My guess is the Hall trigger in the beancan. Pull the plug from the beancan from the socket that enters the wiring loom, don't forget to remove the thin wire bail clip first. Get a piece of wire, pull a plug and lay it on the head so it is grounded and you can see the gap, then turn on the ignition and short to ground the CENTRE contact of the SOCKET (that leads to the wiring loom, I am specific here as others in the past have shorted the plug side, that goes to the beancan, to ground...........that does nothing!!).
If you get a spark, then it appears the Hall trigger is faulty and needs replacing, if no spark, then it's the ECU, coils or wiring.
Bill...................;-)

[MrRiden]

If the Hall sensor does fail there was a Honeywell part # for a replacement. Anyone have that handy? Also check the Ign. mod under the tank for lack of heat paste. Overheating can cause it to fail intermittently. The neutral thing does confuse me tho.
By the way, I see our German brothers call the "bean can" a "milk can". No doubt in reference to the bikes nickname "Gummikuh".

[msbuck]

Found a crack in my coil... .  Had to remove it from the bike in order to find it, though.  After doing research, it seems I had the classic symptons of a coil failure.  Now that it's dry, she cranks right up.  At least I know I can ride until I get a replacement, just not in the rain... now which one to buy...  :-?

[nhmaf]

If you do need a new Hall effect sensor, I believe that Honeywell part is 2AV54, which you can find in newark electronics
part number 96F1986 (www.newark.com)

There is a useful, and I think reasonably accurate list of BMW parts/alternate part substitutions on the IBMWR site,
http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/partsubs.html

[Bob_Roller]

The Dyna brown coil ( 1.5 ohms) for the electronic ignition, is a common replacement coil. I got mine from Motorrad Elektrik, last October for $80 including the mounting bracket, and $6 for Priority shipping.

[NC Steve]

Me too, as originally recommended by Justin about 6 months ago, from Motorrad Elektrik, in Alabama, http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm.
$80 + $6 more s&h, much less than BMW, and it was here in 3 days, complete with all bracketry, screws and excellent instructions.
Can't hardly go wrong; highly recommend! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[nhmaf]

+1 (or I guess, now +2) votes for the dyna brown coil from motorrad elektrik.   I've searched around the internet
a fair amount and haven't found as good a price or availability as what they offer !  Plus, Justin has (or had)
some photos and suggestions you could use to help with installing it.

[Justin B.]

I actually bought a pair for about $130 and with the shipping it made each coil about $70 shipped, but I had to "roll my own" bracket.

[msbuck]

OK, if price is not an issue, is there any advantages of the Dyna Brown coil over the BMW stock coil (new updated version, that is)?  I get a pretty good discount at the BMW dealership and can get the BMW stock for around $100.  More than the Dyna, but I sort of have a hang up about original componants.  I'd love to hear any pros/cons about the two.  

[Justin B.]

The Dyna is a high voltage (30 KV) replacement coil that seems to be a quality component, solid, and durable.  It is also made in the USA.