Dirty Fuel tank - POR-15 ?

[Johnster]

Hello all,
  sorry to throw out my first post as a question, but the summer is here and its time to ride.
  The bike in question is a 1979 R65, last ran in 2001 or 2002 - its been sitting ever since then in a shed.  Aesthetically it isnt bad (I'll want one of those tank covers sooner or later...) but I am worried about the inside of the gas tank.
  It was stored full of fuel, with stabilizer added, but I haven't been in there yet to see what it looks like.
   I also own a '97 GSXF/Katana that has a horrible-looking gas tank (horrible on the inside)- and it clogged all the carbs up on me.  So I am looking at some of those 'gas tank clean and re-coat' kits - like Kreem or POR-15 (for both bikes)
   POR-15 has a better name going in, but not necessarily in the gas tank department.

Does anyone have experience with either of those products ?  any reason they would not work on an R65 ? (is it a steel tank ?  are gold R65 tanks cheap when found new  ?(lol)

Also on the list is front brake Master cylinder, fork seals and the question - do I open up the crankcase to look for problems are lube the splines and ride? - I'll search up these as time permits.

Any POR-15 gas tank experience here ?

-John

[Patrick_Krivacka]

welcome.
I've used por 15. It wasn't hard to use, but you do have to take your time and follow the directions to the letter. I didn't use it on my r65, but on a old honda dream that I sold. I see the guy fairly often, and the por 15 has held up well; although it's only been about a year. I've heard mostly bad things about kreem.

[montmil]

Also on the list is front brake Master cylinder, fork seals and the question - do I open up the crankcase to look for problems are lube the splines and ride? - I'll search up these as time permits.

Any POR-15 gas tank experience here ?

-John

Spline check, clean and lube would be an excellent idea for both the transmission and final drive. I sure would not crack the crankcase at this time. Change all lube fluids and the oil filter. Likely will need new tires and tubes, if you're running them. There are several other items to check and/or maintain but I'll let some others join in with their tips.

The POR-15 works only if you follow all the directions. Who was in among us that used the molasses rust-buster treatment? Post up as that's a great idea especially since John will have some time while prepping for first engine start. 8-)

Welcome to the asylum, John. If you've been lurkin' for awhile, you know this is the place to be for all things R65.

Post up some photos. We l-o-v-e photos.  [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Monte

[Bob_Roller]

I tried the molasses mixture, it worked, but I think a better alternative is to just use the active ingredient of that concoction, acetic acid, which is found in vinegar, might not be as strong of an acid content, but I'm sure in a week or two, it will remove the rust and the old red liner in the tank .

I used the POR 15 in my LS fuel tank, having to do it again, I would just use vinegar in the tank for a week or two, then get the POR 15 sealant in an 8 ounce can, about half the cost of the POR 15 motorcycle kit .

[Patrick_Krivacka]

 electrolysis really works ask well. I've used vinegar and that works, but  electrolysis has a cool factor that nothing else can touch.

[Bob_Roller]

Explain the electrical process you used, I have a Moto Guzzi tank that is rusted up  and needs work, always looking for an easier alternative .

[Patrick_Krivacka]

there's a lot of good info on the web about it (with pictures and everything!) but basically you mix water and WASHING soda (sodium carbonate) I forget the ratio, fill your tank with it. find or make a bare spot on your tank for the neg. cable of a battery charger (12 volt) and hook your pos. cable to a piece of wire/metal rod that you put in your tank (without letting it touch the sides or bottom of tank) and turn it on. give it some time, a couple of hours, then pull the wire/metal rod out and be amazed at the rust that's coating it.
CAUTION: you will be making hydrogen gas, so make sure you have good air flow and no open flames.

[Crossrodes]

Hi Johnster.  First off be aware that your '79 is different in many ways than later models of R65's.  I have a '79 and one of the first things I did was take the front ATE calipers apart (I have 2 on my bike).  I found corrosion on the pistons.  At that time they looked like they would still be operable so I cleaned them up and re-installed them.  Eventually I expect to have to replace the pistons (and maybe the calipers).  I would anticipate that yours may be corroded also if the bike has been sitting for awhile with old brake fluid in it.  Needless to say you should also change the brake fluid.  

Definitely change all the lubricants, grease the splines with moly grease (Honda sells Moly 60).  Look around the bike, you will find some grease nipples...grease them.  Also grease your swing arm bearings...there is a fitting that fits on the end of a grease gun that will allow you to do this.

Good luck.

[Bob_Roller]

there's a lot of good info on the web about it (with pictures and everything!) but basically you mix water and WASHING soda (sodium carbonate) I forget the ratio, fill your tank with it. find or make a bare spot on your tank for the neg. cable of a battery charger (12 volt) and hook your pos. cable to a piece of wire/metal rod that you put in your tank (without letting it touch the sides or bottom of tank) and turn it on. give it some time, a couple of hours, then pull the wire/metal rod out and be amazed at the rust that's coating it.
CAUTION: you will be making hydrogen gas, so make sure you have good air flow and no open flames.

Thanks for the info .

[Bob_Roller]

there's a lot of good info on the web about it (with pictures and everything!) but basically you mix water and WASHING soda (sodium carbonate) I forget the ratio, fill your tank with it. find or make a bare spot on your tank for the neg. cable of a battery charger (12 volt) and hook your pos. cable to a piece of wire/metal rod that you put in your tank (without letting it touch the sides or bottom of tank) and turn it on. give it some time, a couple of hours, then pull the wire/metal rod out and be amazed at the rust that's coating it.
CAUTION: you will be making hydrogen gas, so make sure you have good air flow and no open flames.

The required amount of baking soda, is .5 cup to 5 gallons (19 l.) of water .


The electrical method will also remove any liner that is left in the tank .

I wonder if you used a copper anode hanging down into the tank, if it would deposit any meaningful amount of copper on the inside of the fuel tank metal surface ?

[Johnster]

Oh boy - grease fittings, I'm not old enough for that =)

I didnt want to break the crankcase open- so I appreciate the recommendation =)

motor oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, fork oil - yes it will need these...right now the front forks squeak when you jounce them...

I'm sure that the rear shocks will need rebuilt/replaced - anyone other Ohlins for that ?

Brakes - I've been all the way through the dual disks on my Katana - so other than sourcing an new master cylinder ($$$) I can handle that.

My father bought the bike a few years after my mother left him.  He'd ridden it a few times but never seemed to enjoy riding like I did (I have a SS1000 under my belt).  Could be that his brother was in too many MC's- he gave up his harleys and now rides an R100RT =)  (but still rides from bar to bar with his buddies
  I'd like to give the bike back to my father in good shape, maybe we'll ride together someday (he lives in SE PA)

Spline check and lube - Do I need to plan on removing the trans all the way - or do you think I can get it done with toothbrushes and Popsicle sticks ?

Its gonna be interesting- thanks for the kind words.

-John

[Johnster]

there's a lot of good info on the web about it (with pictures and everything!) but basically you mix water and WASHING soda (sodium carbonate) I forget the ratio, fill your tank with it. find or make a bare spot on your tank for the neg. cable of a battery charger (12 volt) and hook your pos. cable to a piece of wire/metal rod that you put in your tank (without letting it touch the sides or bottom of tank) and turn it on. give it some time, a couple of hours, then pull the wire/metal rod out and be amazed at the rust that's coating it.
CAUTION: you will be making hydrogen gas, so make sure you have good air flow and no open flames.

The required amount of baking soda, is .5 cup to 5 gallons (19 l.) of water .

So you just put this solution in, electrify it and it sucks the rust off ?

-John

[Bob_Roller]

What you need to do, is to hang a 'sacrificial' anode into the filler hole, I'd say a drilled rubber stopper would work to keep the anode from touching any other metal surface on the tank .

I think there will be a transfer of material , the rust from the tank will be deposited on the anode hanging inthe tank, metal from the anode will be deposited on the surface of the tank, at least that's how I think it works !!!!

Fill the tank with the baking soda/water solution, place the positive clamp from the battery charger/ power supply to the anode hanging in the tank, then place the negative clamp from the battery charger/ power supply to a bare metal surface on the tank to complete the circuit .

The few articles that I found online do state the caution, that hydrogen gas will be venting from the tank, so you need to provide a path for this gas to escape, remember that hydrogen is quite flammable/explosive ( remember the Hindenburg zeppelin ?) so keep any potential ignition source away from this experiment !!!!!

[Patrick_Krivacka]

OH THE HUMANITY! (reporter covering the Hindenburg explosion. good times.)
I used a large mouth funnel in the fill hole and rubber bits on the tip of the anode. it really is neat the amount of stuff it takes off.
my son and I were digging in the backyard (making a garden bed) when we came across what must have been an old junk pile. lots of old rusty house hold stuff, scissors, safety razor, silverware, ect. 2 hours in the electrolysist bath and they look like something you'd see in a history museum 3,000 years from now. very cool. but then I'm a nerd.

[Patrick_Krivacka]

oh yeah, from what i've read, WASHING soda, not BAKING soda. both will work, but sodium carbonate will work better then sodium bi-carbonate. again, from what I've read. I'm not a chemist.