Starter troubleshooting

[k_enn]

I need a little help diagnosing a starter problem.

The problem -- the starter won't crank.

The bike -- 1982 R65

Symptoms -- absolutely nothing happens when I press the starter button.  This happened on rare occasions last year before I put the bike up for the winter.  

Additional facts -- The battery is fully charged, and was indoors on a tender all winter.  The main cable from the battery to the starter appears to be fine, with no sign of corrosion.  The starter relay -- when the ignition is moved to the on position, the relay closes.  When I press the starter button, the relay does not move, and do not hear anything at the solenoid.  

Can some help me troubleshoot this?  At this stage, I do not know if it is the starter relay, the starter switch on the handlebar, the solenoid, or the stater itself.  

What I think I need is direction on what to rule out, what order in I should rule it out, and how to rule it out.  I do have a multi-meter, if anything specific needs to be checked.  

Any guidance would be appreciated.  

k_enn

[Bob_Roller]

There's a range of possibilities causing this problem .

Does your neutral light work, a faulty open switch can cause problems .

First, pull the clutch lever in, and then try starting .

If it does work then, neutral switch is probably bad .

There is a interlock switch at the clutch lever, prevents the starter from working while the bike is in gear .

Follow the wires from the clutch lever area, and there should be a connector for two wires about 12-18 inches or so from the lever area, disconnect the connector, place a wire jumper between the two contacts in the connector, then see if it has any effect .

Second possibility could be the starter relay, the relay you hear click, when you turn the key to the 'ON' position, is the light relay, not the start relay .

 You could perform a quick test on the starter relay, remove the start relay, place a wire jumper into the connector base, between the sockets for the red and black wire, it will provide power to the starter solenoid, and the starter should start rotating .

Don't know if this will help you at all, or just confuse you more !!!

[k_enn]

There's a range of possibilities causing this problem .

Does your neutral light work, a faulty open switch can cause problems .

First, pull the clutch lever in, and then try starting .

If it does work then, neutral switch is probably bad .

There is a interlock switch at the clutch lever, prevents the starter from working while the bike is in gear .

Follow the wires from the clutch lever area, and there should be a connector for two wires about 12-18 inches or so from the lever area, disconnect the connector, place a wire jumper between the two contacts in the connector, then see if it has any effect .

Second possibility could be the starter relay, the relay you hear click, when you turn the key to the 'ON' position, is the light relay, not the start relay .

 You could perform a quick test on the starter relay, remove the start relay, place a wire jumper into the connector base, between the sockets for the red and black wire, it will provide power to the starter solenoid, and the starter should start rotating .

Don't know if this will help you at all, or just confuse you more !!!

Thanks.  To answer some of your suggestions:

The neutral light works fine, no open circuit there.

Will not start when clearly in neutral.

Still nothing with the clutch lever is pulled in.

Starter relay --- could be that the owners manual is wrong, but the relay I was checking is clearly designated as the starter relay in the owners manual.  It is a Bosch, 30 amp relay with metal cover.  On the 1982, the rear-most relays are side-by-side, and the manual indicates that the one closest to the frame is the starter relay.  This is the relay I checked, and with the cover off I can clearly see that this the relay that I am hearing.  

I will try a jump wire as you suggest.

k_enn
  

[Bob_Roller]

The metal case relay is the light relay, the start relay has a plastic cover, can be yellow, or green in color .

Should have a wiring diagram molded into the cover .

[k_enn]

The metal case relay is the light relay, the start relay has a plastic cover, can be yellow, or green in color .

Should have a wiring diagram molded into the cover .

Ok, so my owner's manual is wrong.  I know the relay you are talking about.  Of the two side-by-side, it is the one furtherest from frame.  I do not have any relays with a yellow or green cover, mine has a black plastic cover with the diagram molded on to it.

I will by-passing that relay and see what happens.  

k_enn

[Bob_Roller]

The starter relay should have numbers molded into the bottom case by each metal 'pin', the numbers should be : 30 85 86 86a 87 .

The starter relay has 5 'pins', the light relay, has 4 'pins' .

Sorry, I couldn't give you a better description, I didn't have access to a wiring diagram earlier .

[k_enn]

Thanks.  I know the relay you are talking about.  It was dead silent when I pressed the starter button.  The only relay I heard was the one which you identify as the light relay.

So now I guess the starting point is the relay.  If I by-pass it and the starter turns, then the problem is probably in the relay?  Or is it in the feed from the handlebar button?  Any idea how can I differentiate the source of the problem?  Is there a wire feeding into the starter relay that I can test with the multi-meter to see if power is flowing to the relay from the starter button?

k_enn

[Bengt_Phorqs]

If your relay tests OK, then don't overlook the starter itself.  It's not too much effort to pull the starter housing off to test it manually.  The magnets inside the starters have been known to come unglued, literally, causing the starter malfunction.  I had this happen in a '93 R100GS.  The starter can be repaired if that is the case.

But run the relay test first.

[Bob_Roller]

I don't know your electrical expertise, but if you have a multimeter, put one lead into the socket on the starter connector, that has the wire that is blue with a yellow spiral band, the other lead into the socket that has the wire that is brown with a yellow spiral band .

Turn the key to the 'ON' position, when you push the start button, you should read 12 volts, or battery voltage, if you get 12 volts, the start switch and wiring are in good shape .

I had problems with my original starter relay, I removed the cover, and adjusted the arm on relay it wasn't moving enough to have the electrical contacts come together, it worked for another 20 years, until it finally gave up .

You can check the circuit in the relay, that has the holding coil to activate the relay .

Set your multimeter to the 'OHMS' position, put one lead on pin number 85 on the relay, the other lead to pin number 86, you should have continuity, somewhere probably less than 10 ohms .

[k_enn]

I don't know your electrical expertise, but if you have a multimeter, put one lead into the socket on the starter connector, that has the wire that is blue with a yellow spiral band, the other lead into the socket that has the wire that is brown with a yellow spiral band .

Turn the key to the 'ON' position, when you push the start button, you should read 12 volts, or battery voltage .

Thanks,  That is well within my capabilities.  

Can't get to this for a day or so, but you have pointed me in the right direction.  I'll let you know how I make out.

k_enn

[Bob_Roller]

I've made up a set of wires to test the relay out of the bike, the clamp from the battery charger goes on one end of the wire, the other end has a push on crimp on connecter, that slides over the pin .

I use a motorcycle battery charger as the power supply, one lead is attached to pin 85,  the other lead is attached to pin 86, and when the charger is plugged in, the relay should activate .

Then you can take a multimeter to pins 30 and 87, and check for continuity of the 'load' contacts while the relay is in the ''start' mode .

[k_enn]

I've made up a set of wires to test the relay out of the bike, the clamp from the battery charger goes on one end of the wire, the other end has a push on crimp on connecter, that slides over the pin .

I use a motorcycle battery charger as the power supply, one lead is attached to pin 85,  the other lead is attached to pin 86, and when the charger is plugged in, the relay should activate .

Then you can take a multimeter to pins 30 and 87, and check for continuity of the 'load' contacts while the relay is in the ''start' mode .

I think I've got that.  Positive from the charger to pin 85, negative from the charger to pin 86, should activate the relay and produce continuity from 30 to 87.  That's easy enough for checking the relay.

k_enn

[Yikes]

Try removing the the starter relay, removing the cover from the relay and reinstalling the relay with the cover off.  Turn on the ignition and push in on the relay swing arm to close the contact.  It should turn the starter and you can actually start the bike this way, but you have to get the tank back on and the fuel line reconnected to keep going.
If this is your problem, just replace the relay and you're done.

[k_enn]

Thank you to all for your help and suggestions.  My initial focus will probably be on the relay, since I hear nothing when I press the start button.  I won't be able to get to it for a few days, but when I find out what it is I will let you know.

Also, I found a useful link to a troubleshooting process that will also test the other components of the starting system.  

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/starter/index.htm

k_enn

[Bob_Roller]

When you do remove the relay, it probably won't want to come out .

If you use a flat blade screwdriver to pry it off, be a bit careful, the red wire going to the connector base, is 'hot' all the time, if you slip up, you may get a 'shower of sparks' .