Rear wheel lateral movement/play... need help.

[azcycle]

Need your help, everyone.  

This morning's commute into work I didn't notice anything weird at all, but the ride home was a completely different story!  It felt like the rear tire was low on air, and felt really "loose" when cornering.

When I got home, on further inspection, I noticed that the whole rear wheel assembly is LOOSE.  You can see a ton of lateral play between the rear drive/brake assembly and the wheel itself.  It literally rattles/knocks around.

I'm new to BMW's so what is the cause here?  Bad bearings, something wrong in the final drive?  Right now this is my backup transportation so I'll need to get it fixed asap.  If it is something I can do, even better.

Take a look at this really bad video I shot. It's dark but you can see/hear the play as I move the wheel/bike around.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orqZKA3c5HY[/media]

[Bob_Roller]

First, tighten the rear axle nut, off the top f my head, I don't know the torque .

If that doesn't help, the bearings need attention, reshimming the spacer inside the wheel between the bearings, or possibly bearing replacement .

[azcycle]

Thanks for the quick response, Bob.  That bolt was really, really loose.  Enough so I could start to tighten it by hand.  I tightened it down as much as I could without knowing torque, and the play is 100% gone.  At least I can't wiggle the wheel by hand like I could before.

Something to keep my eye on before rides, for sure, especially not knowing if/when the bearings were ever replaced.

[nhmaf]

I'm not completely sure you don't have a bad bearing and/or a worn/damager rear wheel spacer in there - that looks (and sounds) pretty awful.     If it were me - I'd pull the wheel off and inspect the splines on the rear hub as well as the cardan (final drive) side, and look for oil leaking around the cardan side splines (big seal goes around them, as well as teeth on the splines, and watch how smoothly it can rotate.

If it was just a loose axle nut to start with, after riding a number of miles like that very well could have caused some collateral damage.

The rear axle nut (NOT the pinch bolt) should be tightened to 35 ft-lbs or ~48 N-m.  The rear wheel bearings are supposed to have a certain amount of preload on them which is determined by the rear wheel spacers (tophats) that go in either side of the wheel hub - tightening the axle nut draws the axle in and creates this "pressure".

[Bengt_Phorqs]

Mike is spot on there.  But I have to ask, by any chance did you cheese someone off at work?  Is it possible someone was messing with your bike and loosened the rear nut?  I'm just saying usually things don't go that bad that quickly.

[azcycle]

Thanks, fellas. I'm really hoping there was no collateral damage done.  Would I be able to hear anything if damage was done?  I can't say that it wasn't there this morning, but considering the rain and wind we were having, I may have chalked up any strange behavior to the weather and road conditions.  

The garage where I park is certainly very open to the public... someone could have messed with the bolt, but I park in a spot that gets quite a bit of walking/people traffic.  Could be good and bad I suppose.  A vehicle left there overnight just last week had all four wheels stolen off it.

Shoot. I was going to ride it tomorrow, but maybe I shouldn't chance it and rework my transportation situation.  Maybe  I can pull that wheel and inspect this weekend. Just goes with an old bike, I guess. But I can't help but feel a bit frustrated... first my 65 Mustang's rear axle seals went a few days ago, and now this.  I'm running out of transportation!

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I'd be riding the Kymco, for sure.

You need someone that knows what they are doing to take your rear hub apart and inspect the bearings and set the preload.

I've only done this once, on my front wheel, and that was at a "tech session" with a couple of people that had been in there more than a few times, before.  I wouldn't even try and tell you what all we did in what order.

I think I am correct that Iron Horse is airhead-friendly?

If your splines look good and there is no oil all over the inside of the brake area, I would just take them the wheel, if they agree.

[montmil]

I got a better deal when buying my '81 R65 when I pointed out to the PO that the rear wheel bearings were shot. Almost impossible to ride with the rockin' rear wheel... as yours.

Replacement bearings should be available for you locally at a bearing/bolt supply.
Here's a link to the A&S parts listing for 1981 R65s.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.do?model=0364&mospid=47851&hg=36&fg=10

The rear wheel's tapered roller bearings can fail if PO's used high pressure car washes! Not a difficult job to replace the bearings. There are also "top hat" spacers -you'll understand the name when you pull the rear wheel- grease seals (also available local) and the whole BMW angst about bearing preload.

Check out your bike completely. Get back to us and we'll walk you thru it.

Monte

[azcycle]

Wish I had a repair manual, so I could at least attempt to tackle this myself.  Not sure I'm comfortable diving in trying to change seals/bearings without knowing what I'm getting into.  I changed the wheel bearings on my Ford Ranger years ago, but I don't have the proper tools for this job, and reading about having to heat the wheel to get the bearings out, etc... eh... makes me uneasy.

But if just removing the rear wheel to inspect seals and splines is simple, then I can do that.  Is it just a matter of lifting the bike, and slipping the axle out and away to drop the wheel assembly?  I'm not going to be suprised by anything falling out when I drop the wheel?

(Might be a good time to have a new street tire put on there, too!)

I really wish I knew the repair/maintenance history.  John was quite the mechanic, very familiar with BMW bikes, and very good about keeping things in good working order. I am confident he NEVER used a high-pressure wash.

I've been told Ironhorse is very airhead friendly, so maybe I'll give them a call today and see what they're willing to do and cost. I know John used to take this bike to Sparks Cycle, about a block away from Ironhorse.  

[azcycle]

I called Iron Horse and made an appointment for tomorrow to change the oil and have their tech look at the rear bearings.  A few of their techs have numerous old airheads, so it'll be in good hands.  

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

These bearings can fail faster if an owner mis-diagnoses the problem, and attempts to correct by tightening the big axle nut.  Doing that does not solve the problem, and probably makes it worse.

As an aside - you should always set the torque on the axle nut, then tighten the pinch bolt on the left side - otherwise you will be pulling the swingarm inboard, and binding everything up, as well as putting a permanent bend in the swingarm.

[montmil]

 Graeme, Your R65 and mine are the same vintage. All same, all same. Remember Steve McQueen and The Sand Pebbles?

After the doc gives you his diagnosis and before you turn over your checking account to the bike shop, I'll share with you that the rear wheel bearings were the very first maintenance chore I tackled after buying the slightly neglected R65. It was all cake.

Give it some thought. These bikes are like a simple farm tractor; easily maintained. There are some good web-based, self-help BMW articles available to assist in building your confidence. Plus...

You got us, too.[smiley=clap.gif]

Monte

[azcycle]

Believe me, I have no qualms about diving into this bike mechanically myself. I love wrenching, and there is no better way of getting to know your bike.  After resurrecting that basketcase 1976 Goldwing, I know I have the patience and ability.  That being said, with it's unknown (relative) history, I wanted a "professional" to take a look at it. Iron Horse gave it a thorough going over and told me it's in great shape for it's age.  Here is what they told me:

- Rear bearing in good shape.  They tightened down the axle nut and the pinch bolt to specs. Both were loose.  I'll still keep an eye on this area and when I remove the rear wheel for a new tire, I'll inspect the final drive gears and seals.
- Leaking oil (I knew this) from the main seal. Ugh. Big job, I know.
- Needs front brake fluid changed. It's still working fine, but the fluid is old/dark.  
- Changed the oil/filter.
- Confirmed that the "clatter/ticking" from the front of the engine was most likely the timing chain tensioner.  I've read how to do this here on this forum, and that'll be the first thing I tackle soon.
- I plan on changing the rear gear oil as well. Not sure when it was last changed.

Thanks for all the advice and guidance. I'll certainly continue to ask questions and get this thing back into tip-top shape.  

[Bob_Roller]

Good to hear, there was no damage caused by the loose axle nut !!!!

[montmil]

...And Kudos to your mechanic; a man of obvious integrity. He could have grabbed you by the short hairs if he had a mind to. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

There is a timing chain photo essay in my R65.org Photo Gallery album.

Monte