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Author Topic: Driveshaft U-joint Boot  (Read 2508 times)

Offline montmil

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Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« on: December 31, 2009, 12:44:31 PM »
The '83 R65 is now all back together and running well. I have a trustworthy bike to ride if the weather warms a bit. It's now time to shift my attention to the aft end of the '81 R65 and take care of some deferred maintenance.

Here's what I plan to do: 1)Replace the split rubber U-joint boot; 2)Replace the differential cover plate gasket in hopes of eliminating an annoying drip, drip, drip; 3)Replace rear brake shoes; 4)Spline lube. I have all the parts, gaskets and new U-joint bolts on hand along with a fresh tube of Honda's Moly grease.

I'd really like to remove/replace the swing arm pivots only once if at all possible. Also on hand is a modified 27mm socket for the swing arm nuts.

Here are my questions: 1)Suggested sequence of the multiple chores plus any tips that might speed the work along? 2)With the swing arm free, would it be best to pull the trans out entirely for the spline lube? 3)I've checked Clymer and Haynes but do not see any serious issues in replacing the paper diff cover gasket...? 4)What am I missing?

If I get lucky, time wise, I may be able to complete these tasks before I have to return to the salt mines on Tuesday next.

Thanks for any input or "watch out fers".     Monte



Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 01:06:15 PM »
A bit late in the game, if you want to accomplish this, in the next 4 days .

If you have the transmission removed, it's only 6 bolts to remove the clutch assembly, and 5 more bolts, to remove the clutch 'carrier'/ flywheel, then you have access to replace the rear main seal and oil pump cover o-ring .

Blocking the crankshaft at the alternator rotor bolt, to prevent it from moving, and dislodging a crankshaft thrust washer, is recommended before removing the 'clutch carrier'/flywheel .

You can get a good look at the clutch disc itself, and see how worn it is .

When you get to the clutch arm on the back of the transmission, remove the clamp holding the rubber boot to the transmission case first, if you remove the pivot bolt from the arm first, a spring in the boot area will push the boot back, and most likely tear it, if it is an old boot .

The rear drive, if you have the cover off for the paper gasket replacement, replace the o-rings on the rear brake shaft, a common area for leakage to occur .

You could remove the rear brake pedal, clean and lube the bearing surface with a good grease .

With the transmission out,  I would consider replacing the neutral switch, and have a look at the neutral switch wiring, my bet is, that the insulation is brittle, make up a new harness with small gauge wire, and heat-shrink tubing .

Check your replacement boot that covers the u-joint, it should have the word OBEN molded into it, that goes on top .

The clamps that secure the u-joint boot, have a channel shaped piece of metal tack welded to one side of the clamp, it bridges the gap between the two 'ears' of the clamp,  if that piece is missing, the boot will leak, no matter how much you tighten the clamp .
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 01:52:01 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Darwin_R65

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 05:40:13 PM »
OBEN ????? hmmm just refitted my boot after replacing my swingarm bearings and can't recall seeing anything, might need to check if I've installed it upside down?  I had a leak at first, had the screws for the clamps bottom most, rotated them to the side and my leak stopped.

When I pulled my swingarm to change the bearings, I found I didn't have anything to get a grip on the inner bearing shell to pull it out. I had a small universal puller. So I gave it to a mechanic to replace the  inner half of the bearings.

Read in many places that when you remove the 12 sided bolts that attach the driveshaft flange, they are not replaceable as they are designed to deform when installed.

John

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 06:36:32 PM »
I have re-used my dive shaft bolts 4 times so far in the bikes going on 30 year 'life', and 82,000 miles of usage .

I wouldn't argue that the bolts shouldn't be re-used, but it's obvious in my case at least, that this doesn't mean much .

My personal opinion, is that due to the problems with access to the bolt heads, they don't get torqued correctly .

Also, BMW has a lubricant specifically for transmission input splines, I need to look up the part number .

The markings on the tube, show Microlube GL 261, no BMW part number .

All I can tell you, is that I used it the last time I had the transmission out, and it was the 'stickiest' grease I have ever seen .
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 06:48:39 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

MultiplexMan

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 07:47:59 PM »
Microlube is a Kluber product.

http://www.klubersolutions.com/pdfs/Microlube%20GL%20261.pdf

Your local industrial bearing outlet should stock it...

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2009, 07:53:08 PM »
I paid about $18US, for a 25 gram tube in 2007 .

How much would you like to bet, that this was an inflated price !!!!!
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 03:38:49 PM »
Friday 01 Jan 10 1500 hrs:

Problem #2 - the annoying drip, drip, drip off the bottom of the drive housing - was not the drive cover plate gasket nor the mondo-sized oil seal. The two (2) 10x2 rubber O-rings on the brake cam shaft were toast... very hard and flattened at their contact patch. Quite obvious during the visual inspection. There are four (4) additional shallow grooves in the brake cam shaft but not deep enough to fit additional O-rings. Lubricant reservoirs?

With the shaft weeping gear oil onto the brake drum area, the shoes were nasty and soaked through with lube plus the entire brake housing was just plain ol' nasty dirty. Very weak braking - d'oh - but I still used the brake pedal to trigger the brake light.  HD clean up inside and then slightly loosened and re-torqued the cover plate to spec.


New rear shoes look nice. They fit. Y'all remember the prior post regarding an R65 brother hereabouts that had the wrong shoes? LS vs std R65. Anyway... no worries there.

The final drive splines have been cleaned and dressed with Honda Moly 60. Replacing the 'rock' O-rings with fresh meat. A bit more buffing needed to pass inspection.

Saturday is mostly lost due to helping number two son time the 318 in his new/old project car. Plus several other, "Hey, Dad. Can you help me outs". May get the swing arm loosened and secured before closing shop. That gives me two whole days to replace the driveshaft boot and do a quickie spline lube inspection and lube before reporting back to work on Tuesday.

I'll make it if the creek don't rise. Fingers crossed.

Monte I ate my black-eyed peas Miller
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 06:02:59 PM »
Monte, consider posting some photos of Zack's Dodge on the non BMW related board.  Some of these other gearheads might want to see that beuty.  BTW, does he have those thru the hood pin locks on that car like drag racers use?

Bengt "I'm about to eat my blackeyed peas" Phorqs
Bengt Phorqs, Jake R90/6, R80/7, R1200RTw, Moto Guzzi California EV , Triumph TR250W, Yamaha TY250A Trials, Suzuki DR650

proctorls

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 07:39:43 PM »
Monte,

When I went through my '84 LS I replaced gaskets and O-rings in the final drive, and filled both reservoirs with synthetic gear lube.  My rear drive main seal started leaking after about 1K miles, and I had to replace it.  Since then, I've noticed some migration of oil all the way to the gearbox.  You may want to consider replacing the input shaft seal on the final drive.  If I were doing it again, I'd use some LocTite hydraulic seal on the input shaft nut, in addition to the crush seal.


Steve

Offline montmil

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 07:46:47 AM »
Hey, Steve-O. Thanks for the ideas.

The topic of dino vs synthetic oil has been batted about by the inmates here in the R65 asylum. Several, including myownself, have tried the synthetics but switched back after experiencing leaks from formerly dry areas. Returning to conventional lubes actually stopped the leaks. I'll let the oily 'sperts delve deeper into this or you might locate a thread in the archives.

Quote
Monte, consider posting some photos of Zack's Dodge on the non BMW related board.  Some of these other gearheads might want to see that beuty.  BTW, does he have those thru the hood pin locks on that car like drag racers use?

Bengt "I'm about to eat my blackeyed peas" Phorqs

Bengt Mike, it's a Plymouth, not a Dodge. I'll get some snaps today and post a couple for the way back members hereabouts.
And ol' buddy, you are stepping out on thin ice...  [smiley=Kick.gif]


Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline montmil

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 05:26:36 PM »
Rats! Stymied by two little O-rings. As mentioned earlier, the ugly drip was due to the worn and hardened condition of the two O-rings on the brake cam shaft. I have over 500 metric O-rings in the shop and figured -incorrectly- that I'd have a couple of the correct 10 x 2 size required. Wrong.

No O-rings=No brake shoes installed=No drive shaft U-joint removal=No U-joint boot replacement. Even a nice visit from Bengt Phorqs, riding his new-to-him R1100S oily head, cheered me only a bit. I'll survive. Will call Vech at Bench Mark Works on Monday (Yep. He's open Mondays) and have him send me a few Onion rings.

Tomorrow, I should be able to handle the spline lube detail. At least I've had time to clean all the grunge off the front of the swingarm...

Good news is we're having home-made chicken n' dumplin's for supper. Perfect meal for a chilly day.

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Barry

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 07:28:13 AM »
Monte

Not much relevance to your post just an observation on the different types of rear drive.

Remember some time back I posted that my rear brake shaft has no O rings and does not leak at all and that Snowbum had pointed out that this was OK because the number of O rings fitted over the years had changed from none to 2 or maybe more I forget.

This can only be because the later shaft bore communicates with the rear drive oil bits presumably to lubricate the shaft where as the early type did not and should be greased now and then.

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline montmil

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 02:41:37 PM »
Barry, The pre-1981 brake cam shaft did not have O-rings as there was not an opening to the final drive gear oil reservoir around the brake cam shaft. The cam shaft passed through the final drive within a solid tube. It did require occasional maintenance with a dab of grease.

IIRC, '84 and later models had a different design brake cam shaft with an occasional difference in number of O-rings AND o.d. of the shaft. This makes it rather difficult to swap a newer shaft in to an older bike as the parts numbers are either in error or just not shown on BMW fiche pages. Argh...

Our postal servant -ha!- brought my small O-ring and felt order from Bench Mark Works today, Saturday. I braved the sub-freezing shop and brought the brake cam shaft inside, warmed it and myself up, then fit the two new 10 x 2 O-rings. They look just like the HF examples I tied that were too small... please, lord, let 'em be right.

Back out into what my wife and I are now calling The Wine Grotto and, oh joy, the O-rings and shaft slip in with what feels like the proper amount of resistance. Sunday morning I'll light off the KeroSun heater and later go fit the new brake shoes and brake linkage. Then, it's on to the U-joint boot and spline lube.

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline montmil

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2010, 05:11:49 PM »
Those pesky rear brake cam shaft O-rings can really make a mess when they go Tango Uniform.



Two 10 x 2 mm O-rings are all that keep the final drive gear lube from weeping into the brake drum, out the brake lever opening, or both.  The other four shallow grooves are not O-ring locations; they serve to trap a small amount of gear lube to lubricate the shaft.



Brake drum is well lubricated on the 1983 R65. Excess of grease on the final drive splines has been slung out and contributed to the slick mess. After a good cleaning, a small bit of Honda Moly 60 will work better. Note the gear oil tracks on the tire. Bike has been waiting patiently for its turn.



The '83's brake shoes are pretty well worn out and slick as scum on a Louisiana swamp. That's not rust on the drive splines, just nasty, excessive grease.

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Barry

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Re: Driveshaft U-joint Boot
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 06:47:06 AM »
Monte

If you have refitted brake shoes before you'll know what I mean, if not prepare for some fun.  Those return springs are the strongest I ever came across on a car or bike. Can't remember what tools I used but a good selection profanities were definitely involved.
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45