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Author Topic: Minimum compression on a R65 head  (Read 6256 times)

Adamastor

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2009, 06:31:07 PM »
Hi Lou, can you rebore a nikasil cylinder?

On the Moto-Bins site they have that the after 1981 rings kit say: 650cc R65 1981 ON (NO OVER SIZE)
They don't even sell new/refurbished nikasil cylinders... :(
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 06:32:20 PM by Adamastor »

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2009, 09:29:52 PM »
Nikasil bores aren't able to be re-bored - the lining is very tough, but very thin.   IF they aren't damaged from something destroying/gouging the surface, they'll stay perfectly smooth for > 150K miles, easily.   But unfortunately, this makes them "disposable" if the surface does get damaged.   I haven't yet found anyone who can re-apply a Nikasil lining- there may be a place which does this, but I don't know where it is.
The Nikasil cylinders are definitely better at heat dissipation than the iron lined ones, and virtually don't wear out, but they are a bit like those non-stick cooking pans.

I'd look for a possible source of use nikasil cylinders like ebay, etc. as your best option if you end up replacing it.  You could switch to the 78-80 iron lined cylinders, but would also have to switch pistons and rings for those cylinders as well.   I also don't know how well the large valve heads work with the older style cylinders&pistons   (critical factor would be valve head/piston head clearance or squish clearance).

The piston head does look odd - it does appear like there are valve-head shaped "dents" in to crown.      Usually when a valve head separates in a running engine, the damage is more severe and often there is a hole punched right through the piston top.   It is hard to tell what happened to that cylinder in the past, but it certainly wasn't a happy thing.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 09:38:54 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

bruce_launceston

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2009, 09:40:24 PM »
It is certainly my understanding that you can't rebore a nikasil cylinder, hence why no oversize rings are available. My guess is that you would have to get it bored oversize and sleeved back to standard.
Then you would have one nikasil cylinder and one iron so I don't know what other implications that has.
Your cylinder bore certainly does look damaged above the rings and whatever did it must have damaged the bore lower down to some extent. I think I would be searching for a low mileage cylinder as they are not supposed to wear out.
It may be time to take the bits to a BMW expert for some technical advice?

Cheers Bruce

Adamastor

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2009, 01:26:06 PM »
I am asking if you can mix a pre-1981 barrel/piston with a post-1981 head because I have the chance to buy a pair of pre-1981 barrels+pistons.
Apart from buying new rings for these pistons, would it just be plug and play? Do the heads bolt in perfeclty?

Thanks once again...

Offline Lucky_Lou

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2009, 02:01:26 PM »
Quote
I am asking if you can mix a pre-1981 barrel/piston with a post-1981 head because I have the chance to buy a pair of pre-1981 barrels+pistons.
Apart from buying new rings for these pistons, would it just be plug and play? Do the heads bolt in perfeclty?

Thanks once again...
A very good question i would say yes as i cannot see BMW retooling to alter the engine caseing and everything else but to be sure i will ask Andrew at Mollsprings if he doesnt know he will know how to find out ill get back to you tomorrow on this one
http://mollsprings.co.uk/
Lou

Ask questions later

Adamastor

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2009, 02:24:50 PM »
Lou, it would be great for you to know that for me :) Could save my day :)

Offline steve hawkins

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 06:20:33 AM »
I am running post 81 heads on pre 81 barrels with pre 81 pistons (1st oversize atfer a rebore at 94,000 miles).  So there are no clearance issues - I have almost 15,000 miles on them.

I would say however that you are introducing a significant amount of weight....you will know about it when you campare the weight of the two.  Iron is heavier than Ally.  I would be looking for a new nikasil barrel if I were you.

Steve H (Rev. Light)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 06:24:30 AM by steve_hawkins »
Steve Hawkins R100 (that wants to be an R65)

Offline Lucky_Lou

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2009, 01:10:12 PM »
Im reliably informed there interchangeable if weight is an issue go on a diet!!
Lou
Ask questions later

Adamastor

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2009, 02:08:32 PM »
Thank everyone :) that is good to know, I am however now speaking with someone who knows someone who might have a nikasil barrel in good shape... let's cross fingers :) I think it also has a mating piston, and I might buy it too. Mine has all those marks on the crown... it could be bad, right?

Regards

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2009, 02:58:21 PM »
There's an outside chance, that with the piston hitting an object, it may have been cracked in the process, and it may not be readily visible to the naked eye .

I would seriously consider replacing the piston as well, if you can do it .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Adamastor

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2009, 05:18:27 PM »
Just finished assembling the "new" cylinder and piston with the new rings and got her to fire ok (lots of smoke).

Tomorrow morning I will do a small test ride, so I can balance carbs with a heated engine.
Any special advices for new rings/cylinder/piston break in? I usually simply avoid high revs and try to vary revs the most I can (city/small roads).

I am not sure I still know how to drive the BMW eheheh It's been a while since I last rode it (and unfortunately came back home on a trailer). I am crossing fingers so that It wont be raining...

Apart from the "new" piston/cylinder/rings it also has new coil (Dyna Coil) and new CDI. I only miss a new hall sensor to have a brand new ignition system on my R65!
Do I/Should I change the hall sensor? Already seen on the web it is not the easiest job on earth, but can be done...

Regards,

Sergio

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Minimum compression on a R65 head
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2009, 07:08:18 PM »
Good to hear you got all of the problems sorted out !!

Break in the rings just like you stated .

As far as the Hall sensor is concerned, it's not an overly difficult job, but if you break something in the process, no individual parts are available, unless you have a 'donor' 'bean can' to cannibalize parts from .

I personally wouldn't touch it .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!