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Author Topic: Stuck in Toronto  (Read 4324 times)

invincibleone

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Stuck in Toronto
« on: September 08, 2009, 12:54:15 PM »
So I rode the 1982 R65LS from Delaware to Toronto for a friends wedding. It ran great all the way up & superbly for a day around town sightseeing. However Sunday after the wedding the battery was dead; I pushed started it but it was clear the bike wasn't charging.
 I don't know if you all remember but it did this once before (1400 miles ago) and the forum came to the conclusion the burned out GEN bulb was the culprit. Now when I start the bike the Gen lamp goes out like it should, but it obviously isn't charging.
 Any help is much appreciated.
Fissel the Missile

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 01:19:26 PM »
You'll still need to test with a volt meter to confirm no charging.  Attach the volt meter to your battery, start the bike and rev the motor up over 3,000 rpms or so.  Your battery voltage should go up to about 14.2; if it doesn't change then your're not getting any charge.  When mine had the symptoms you describe it turned out that my voltage regulator had failed and was not passing any current.

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/techindex.htm

has several electrical articles, though if my charging system ever gives me fits I'm going to buy a book shown on this web site:

http://www.crbmw.com/content/view/22/46/

as I think these have complicated charging systems.

Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Crossrodes

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 01:55:18 PM »
You may be able to get some help from a local member of the CVMG (Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group) who is familiar with BMW's.  Here is the email for the executive secretary:
cvmg.secretary@yahoo.ca

Failing that, call a BMW shop to see if they can recommend a place that works on BMW's.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 01:55:55 PM by Crossrodes »

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 02:09:03 PM »
Without putting a meter on the battery and running the engine, like Ed mentioned, it's hard to say what the problem is .

How old is the battery ?

If it's a serviceable type, how does the electrolyte level look ?
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 05:31:49 PM »
Brushes on the stator rotor could be worn out...

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Flash

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 05:44:35 PM »
I know this won't solve your charging system problem, but if your stuck and need to get home this may help.
A few of us were in Northern Newfoundland, where there is a serious lack of support services, when a buddy's charging coil failed.
The two major draws on a motorcycle battery are the starter and the headlight. (The horn is the third, but how often is it needed?) He just so happened to have a small 12 charger with him, which looked like a AC adapter with a black and red lead, so we charged his battery overnight at the motel we stayed in. Another rider had the exact same battery so the plan was to swap them if his drained, but it was remarkable how long he was able to run on his own battery, with just the ignition and signals.
We disconnected his headlight plug, and bump started the bike and I believe we rode for two days before changing batteries.
(We didn't dare ride after sundown up there - MOOSE !)
I hope this at least helps you get home.

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 09:39:56 PM »
Alright so I charged the battery and bought a multimeter. Battery takes charge, definitley not the issue. At the diode board (aka rectifier) when the terminal to the B+ post is pulled I get 14.2 volts. When attached I get 11.9. I believe this means I have a bad diode board? My manual is 462 miles away. CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM THIS FOR ME? Either way it is either the diode board or voltage regulator correct???? There appears to be a few dealers in the area so with any luuck I can get this part in the morning and get home by Thursday morning for work.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 09:40:36 PM by invincibleone »

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 10:50:48 PM »
I'm looking at the charging troubleshooting guide by Rick Jones, owner of Motorrad Elektrik .

The test of the diode board requires removing the assembly from the bike .

Remove the ground wire from the battery .

The test for the diodes, is, put one lead from the meter on the B+ terminal on the diode board, next place the other meter lead on the AC input terminals, these appear in the picture, to be located in the gap between the metal parts the diodes are pressed into, and are parallel to the opening between the metal parts .

If the diode is good, it should have 'continuity ' in one direction , and an 'open' in the reverse direction .

So, if you put the red lead on the B+ terminal all of the diodes should have either low ohms, usually less than 10 ohms, or they should all be open, or ifninite resistance .

When you reverse the leads, put the black lead on B+, and then check the diode terminals, it show the opposite of your first reading .

The second test is to use the D+ terminal, and the previously used diode terminals, and perform the same test, the results should be the same if the board is good, all three diodes show low resistance in one direction, and open or infinite resistance in the opposite direction .

Hope this may have helped you, more than it may have confused you .

From the manual, it doesn't appear that the regulator is the issue, but here is the test for it .

The regulator could be one of two types, the original is a rectangular metal can with usually red tape over the seam in the metal case near the bottom, the other type is a red and black plastic module about 3/4 th's of an inch thick .

Remove the three pin connector from the regulator, and place a wire jumper between the blue wire, and the black wire terminals in the connector .

Place the meter leads on the battery .

Start the engine, and run it to about 2000 rpm's, and you should have a high voltage showing at the battery should be above 14 volts .

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 10:56:59 PM »
Ran out of space in the previous posting .

Don't run the engine for any longer than you have to for the regulator test, as you have no over voltage protection, the alternator will put out as much as it can .

Hope this helped you out more than it may have confused you .

If you need further technical assistance, Motorrad Elektrik has a tech help available at : motoelekt@mindspring.com , telephone number (413) 556-8701  .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 09:35:30 AM »
Bob-
 Thanks a million. The local BMW dealer can't get either the voltage regulator or the diode board until tomorrow am. It sounds like a diode board failure, but I am going to use the above mentioned method to make 100% certain.
 Also- don't brake down in Canada. The local dealer quoted me prices which were roughly twice that of BikeBandit, which is about 90% more expensive after factoring currency conversion.
Fissel the Missile

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 11:06:14 AM »
UPDATE:
 So with diode board removed I do indeed have open one way, but certainly not continuity the other way, in fact resistence through the board is so high it can only be measured in megohms. Just to be 100% certain this is measuring with the black lead on what I believe to be B+ (looking at it, the terminal which comes out and makes a 90 degree bend upward, on what would be the left hand side of the bike) and with the red lead on the smaller central post coming off the other side of the board.
I ordered the board for $254 CaD which equates to US $232. The BikeBandit price is $125.55 :(

Something most of you dont know about me: I am a Delaware Air National Guardsman and I have to report this Friday. The part is scheduled to arrive at Toronto BMW at 9am; if this doesn't fix it I am going to have to find a place to leave the bike in Toronto and take a flight home. Hopefully this does it.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 11:30:34 AM by invincibleone »

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 11:36:30 PM »
Well I just wanted to confirm that I did eventually get home. Installing a new diode board got it charging, at least sort of. It went from not charging at all to charging a steady 12.35 volts with the new board. Maybe the voltage regulator is fried also??? It got me home charging 12.35, but still isn't 100%. I would assume it should probably be at least 13.25 volts at about 2500 rpm???
I think I'll look into the possibly of a combined diode board & voltage regulator failure tomorrow. At least it is usable again with the new diode board.........
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 11:37:46 PM by invincibleone »

Offline montmil

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 05:31:14 AM »
Old wires, Fissel, old wires and connections.

Start with new NAPA-made battery ground and positive wires with copper terminals and heavier gauge wire.

Then, "in your spare time," begin replacing the OEM wires and terminals as far as you can go within the charging system. Failing that, replace the spade terminals. Most are likely corroded and providing much resistance throughout the system.

You'll be surprised at what a difference this will make in the BMW's charging performance.

Photo of my latest R65 battery ground strap...

Monte

« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 05:37:24 AM by montmil »
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 08:22:06 AM »
Quote
Old wires, Fissel, old wires and connections.

Start with new NAPA-made battery ground and positive wires with copper terminals and heavier gauge wire.

Then, "in your spare time," begin replacing the OEM wires and terminals as far as you can go within the charging system. Failing that, replace the spade terminals. Most are likely corroded and providing much resistance throughout the system.

You'll be surprised at what a difference this will make in the BMW's charging performance.

Photo of my latest R65 battery ground strap...

Monte


Doubtful. This bike has just over 16,000 miles on it and 3,500 are from me in the last few months. The bike has never spent a night outside and I haven't seen signs of electrical corrosion anywhere.

Rather than just replacing wires thought to possibly be bad I could simply ohm each of them out to see if any have excessive resistance. But if there was enough resistance to drop a volt (or more) we would be producing a fair amount of heat, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

I have a gut feeling it is the voltage regulator.

invincibleone

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Re: Stuck in Toronto
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2009, 08:30:40 AM »
I will say your wire making skills are impressive...........
Years ago I was a mechanic at the Automotive Road of Dreams Museum in Orange County California and I was regularly replacing corroded to bits positive & ground straps on vehicles. I generally just purchased pre-made cables but on some vehicles with very long, large gauge wires I did have to make them. I always thought I was quite able at this task, but it appears you would give me a run for my money.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 08:31:01 AM by invincibleone »