The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: Motor swap  (Read 1354 times)

awaffa2003

  • Guest
Motor swap
« on: July 21, 2009, 02:34:22 PM »
Hey guys!

Just got back from the MOA rally on my dad's R80RT and um... well... i dont thing my lil 650 can cut it anymore. We were runnin at 90mph all day with spirited riding here and there probably hitting 105 easily. I know for a fact that MY R65 wouldnt have been able to keep up. even with the R80, i was still the runt of the pack, keeping up with a Gold Wing and my dad's R1150RT. I still love my R65 though and i dont want anouher bike so i thing a R80/100 motor swap is in order. Other that obvious ground clearance issues, should i have any other problems???

Offline Lucky_Lou

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2699
  • shoot first
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 04:24:37 PM »
Yup just think of all those speeding tickets your going to get!!!!
Lou
Ask questions later

Offline nhmaf

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5156
  • Free at last, Free at last!
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 04:44:07 PM »
The R80/100 have larger exhaust ports/header diameter, so the exhaust system will have to be swapped as well as the carbs.   The transmissions are all the exact same, so no problem there.  However, the larger engines do have a lower redline (RPM) so you will want to replace the final drive also with one from an R80/R100 or you will lose top speed (but have really strong acceleration) with an R65 final drive.
The R80 engine has the same peak HP as the R65, but at significantly lower RPM - it has a bit more peak torque as well, and also at much lower RPM than the R65's peak.   The R100 motor from the 1980's will give you roughly 60-65 HP and almost 100% more torque than your normal R65 engine, again at lower revs.   Considering that the typical GoldWing or R1150 put out at least 90 HP, even with an engine swap you will still be substantially down on HP with respect to them when it comes to high speeds cruising - pushing air at those speeds is a function of Horsepower.  

While it isn't a match for a larger engined bike at 80+ MPH, I had no problems cruising the interstates at 75 on my R65 coming back from the rally - it is spinning close to 5350 RPM then, but seems very smooth/happy there.   But overall, I think that it is best on curvy secondary roads and under 75 MPH.

Sorry that we missed seeing you - Sue and I were trying to round up as many R65 members as we could for chatting, beer, and photos with the "FLAG".   We both wore our red "R65" hats pretty much all day/night.  I counted (5) other R65 bikes at the rally, and tried to track down their owners, too.   I did talk with one young woman on a mono R65 with S-fairing who lives not too far from the rally - hopefully she decides to sign up to our group!
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Lucky_Lou

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2699
  • shoot first
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 04:57:16 PM »
Is the frame the same... im sure i read somewhere the rear shocks are longer !!
Lou
Ask questions later

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 05:43:50 PM »
I think that if it was me,i would sooner just look for another bike and keep the R65 for 70/75mph journey's,because by the time you do all that work to convert the R65 it wouldn't be cost effective IMHO.

ambrose78

  • Guest
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 06:02:00 PM »
Personally I wouldn't bother with an engine swap unless existing motor died and I just happened to find one. If you want a bigger bike for riding fast one straight roads, just get a bigger bike. Or just choose roads with lots of twisties.

The r65 seems to be geared so that it runs out of revs in top gear. Has anyone put a taller rear drive ratio from an r80 or r100 into an r65? Does the wee machine cope with it? I'd imagine that it would be less responsive in acceleration but if it can pull the taller ratio it should have a higher top speed and more comfortable cruise revs.

Of course the speedo would need recalibrating or an alternative digital speedo.

awaffa2003

  • Guest
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 07:57:23 PM »
ok so i will only run into exhaust and final drive issues, sweet. and no, the frame isn't the same, its smaller. shorter wheelbase, different forks, and yes the shocks are shorter. i can flat foot my r65 but on my toes on the r80. i dont have any money for another bike, nor a stable for every type of bike that i want, plus i have my bike how i want so if i want to go faster, which i do, this is what im gonna do.

fastcataz

  • Guest
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 08:00:58 PM »
Nothing like.... too much! Not affil, ect.

'74 R90S engine. Completely torn down and reassembled in '04, has less than 4k on it. Engine was bead blasted and still looks great. Cylinders bored to 1043cc by Ted. New valves and reground seats. Dual plugged. New bearings, oil pickup, new seals all around. Shop set rear main, absolutely no leaks. Boyer ignition. Rebuilt starter. Omega diode board. All new internal wiring. Deep oil pan. New reed valve with correct plumbing and snorkel style airbox. New pistons, wrist pins, rings, all balanced. Drop it into a frame and start her up. Has mechanical tach setup- you can swap out the front cover and install an electronic tach if you want, easy to do (I have a /5 bucket on this bike). Am tearing the bike down today but I guarantee this engine runs like she's new. Anything else you are looking for, email- this bike is completely restored and coming apart. No carbs included. Am willing to put engine on pallet and ship it- I can get the name of the company I used last time, but it will cost you another $50 since I have to crate the engine. Otherwise, we can arrange pickup.
Price: $950
Location: North Florida
Contact Frank Thomas at <bmwdude1@comcast.net>
Telephone 850-319-0994

Offline nhmaf

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5156
  • Free at last, Free at last!
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 08:15:22 PM »
If you don't have a bike from the same "genre" of clutch/transmission implementation, you'll also have to work out a way to match up transmissions/clutches, etc. if considering an engine swap.  The simplest choices would be an 81-> donor engine with and '81-> R65 bike.  Or, if you have a 79-80 R65, then an R80 from the same time period.  That way, the clutches, transmission input shafts etc. are all of the proper/same type.  Otherwise, more work is necessary to mix/match clutch and flywheel parts,etc.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Justin B.

  • Administrator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5983
  • I love my Beemers
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 01:03:50 AM »
Get a same-year R80 or R100 engine and it should bolt right in.  There may be a clutch and pressure plate difference but for the most part it's a bolt-and-go...  If you use your existing carbs you'll probably need to re-jet.
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

ambrose78

  • Guest
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 03:15:07 AM »
Well sounds like you've thought through what you want to do. There is also differences in carbs and the airbox plumbing. Might be an idea to put r100/80 brakes on to match the donor engine.

 Good luck with the conversion. It'll be interesting to see it progress

Offline steve hawkins

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1347
  • Lighter, Faster, where's me hacksaw!
Re: Motor swap
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 06:16:40 AM »
The R80RT speedo was over reading.  The RT in the real world would not be that much faster, especially lugging that fairing about.  Perhaps an indicated 105mph with that fairing on.....probably 95mph really.

It does have more torque, granted.  You would be able to keep up with your R65, but you would have to work it harder, by using your gears and staying in gear through much more of the rev range.

As mentioned above, pick an R100 engine from a bike that is the same age, and you will want the carbs, exhaust(you will still have to modify it) and final drive.  Cheapest way to do this is to buy a suitable R100 and strip it.  Flog what you do not need on fleabay.

If you are running a single disk up front - then you might be advised to add another.  But if you have dual Brembos or ATE's even, then they are the same performance as the R100 Brembo setup.

If you like leaning over and scraping your cylinders on the tarmac, or your roads have alot of camber, then the increased width of the R100 engine might be an issue.  height difference of an R100 to and R65 is half an inch.  This is achieved by the rear shock length and the front wheel size.  The frames, are very similar geometry.  I think the swing arm is shorter on the R65 which accounts for the wheel base difference.

I have both, an R100 and an R65.  I have just MOT'd the R65 cafe racer, so its back on the road.  The R100 is standard naked setup with Euro Bars.  Yes it does accelerate faster, but I would still prefer to be on my 65.  And my speedo on the R100 is a lying b*st*rd (+10%).  Whereas my R65 has gone digital.

However, in the UK you are advised to keep the speed limit in sight.  30mph above the limit is a custodial sentence and loss of licence - no argument.  

So being able to do 100mph+ has just become irrelevent.

Have fun
Steve Hawkins R100 (that wants to be an R65)