Rear main seal and oil pump O-ring

[suecanada]

Hi, guys and gals.. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]  I have decided to ask my burning question after much [smiley=wall.gif].  Would someone be so kind as to put a link towards a parts fiche picture or whatever that shows me where this rear main seal and oil-pump O-ring might be located? I think I have spotted it maybe :-/ in the latest MOA ON magazine article on cranksahft replacement.

As my nice clean, amber, winter storage oil drips off the back of the shelf at the back of the engine, I just wonder if I might do something about it someday.....Am I correct in thinking that this minor oil leak is NOT something that will be critical to me riding all next season and even over to Wisconsin. It is a weep...not a piddle drip. At least I know that guru matt Parkhouse will most likely be at the MOA rally to handle any disasters.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

To see either one of these, you will have to remove the clutch and flywheel.  Don't forget to block the front of the crank before removing the flywheel!

[ScottColumbus]

Hello Sue,

after removing the clutch and the flywheel - as Rob mentioned - you can see this (in reality without the red arrows ):



Normally a small loss of oil does not harm your engine. But on my cow the loss grew larger from day to day. Suddenly flowed very much oil from the rear seals.

BTW: You are sure that it is motor oil and not transmission oil? You can smell the difference.

Dirk

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

NICE picture, Dirk!

I can see it is definitely easier having English speaking members from Kleinenboxer forum contribute here, rather than trying to use the online translators to figure out what is being said on the German forum.

Thank you.

If I failed miserably at Spanish and French, is there any point in attempting German?

[ScottColumbus]

If I failed miserably at Spanish and French, is there any point in attempting German?

Rob, recently I´ve  read about an American, who collects cars. He loved Porsche sports cars.
And he learned German for the only reason to be able to read the operating instructions of his  Porsche 911 in the mother language.

So just DO it!



Dirk

[Chris_in_BC]

.Am I correct in thinking that this minor oil leak is NOT something that will be critical to me riding all next season and even over to Wisconsin. It is a weep...not a piddle drip..

Hi Sue, You have a great picture to look at from Dirk. Note at some point if you do replace the rear main seal, there is also another O-ring to order that goes behind the oil seal on the crank.

But you are right in that a weep is nothing major. My RS has been weeping for several years now and has never got any worse. If just a weep, then it is often one of those things you can leave until you need to get in there for something major, like a clutch etc.  

Did you receive that fuel tap part yet?

Happy New Year
Chris

[suecanada]

Two things here... the MOA article did show the seal and O-ring locations so I am learning something here [smiley=clap.gif] Thank you very much Dirk. .that is one super picture and I know it is engine oil and not transmission oil as the oil is clean, clean which matches the fresh oil I put into the engine last month while winterizing the bike.
You would have laughed at me before the new oil went in though as I was forever taking sniffing samples of tranny oil vs engine oil out to the brrrm closet to see which one my drip smelled like! [smiley=idea2.gif] [smiley=undecided.gif]  I got very confused after a while.

Chris..the female petcock disc arrived 2 days ago and you won't believe this but it is too big!! Both OD and ID are too large and it won't fit into the petcock. Would you like it back?? I have a call into Airheads salvage and Motobins to see if they have such a thing. My old female disc didn't have any holes in it either. Remember when I said it looked like my old disc had bent up edges? Maybe someone tried to gerryrig some disc to fit but then again that doesn't explain why the interior notch sits no where close to the raised portion on the selector shaft. Hmmm.  Why would the haynes manual and all the parts fiches show no discs for the Germa petcock anyhow?? :-?

I wonder Rob how many times you have warned us to block the front of the crank??

To tell you the truth, I don't know what a flywheel looks like either. :-?

BTW the R65 manual looks like the original one I owned when I had my first R5LS which had come direct from Germany. I learned a bit of German sorting through the manual but really relied on the pictures.

Thank you all for such speedy replies to a damsel in distress...I wonder if i would ever be bold enough to actually fix the leak by myself.  Little Red Baron must be quaking in his wee Metzlers!!

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

>I wonder Rob how many times you have warned us to block the front of the crank??<

The warning was for anyone that had not heard it before.  Not you, Sue!



>To tell you the truth, I don't know what a flywheel looks like either.<

Now I don't know if you are serious or not, so I will answer your question.  In the photograph, it is the large circular piece with the gear teeth around the circumference.

[suecanada]

Rob..thank you..I really didn't know what a flywheel looked like but I guess it is obvious in retrospect

I need reminding all the time about proper procedures as I have never done these jobs and have really no idea what I would be up against..I just recognise the warnings...so thanks Rob for the warning..I will no doubt need to hear it again.

[VaSteve]

Sue....don't reuse the bolts either.  Flywheel bolts are stretch bolts.   You usually need to torque them in 3 stages.
I was told and my understanding confirms it...if you have a weep from the real main seal, it's no big deal...It can't kick up on the flywheel or anything.   It *could* drip onto the rear tire, but if you dump enough oil to do that, the engine's going to seize anyhow.  


Rob, why do you need to block the front of the crank?  (And where?)  Isn't there some place on the flywheel to lock it in place to remove those bolts?   I have done a couple of german car flywheels and that's usually the case.

[VaSteve]

Oh and do you need to remove the engine from the bike to remove the flywheel?   I feel like doing this job since I like spending money to fix things...

[Chris_in_BC]

Hi VaSteve,
  Actually the 1999 Haynes manual states that BMW has revised its thoughts on flywheel bolts and they can be reused if not obviously damaged. The torque setting has been increased to 125NM and the bolts should be installed with engine oil on their threads.

The reason for blocking the crank is that once the flywheel has been removed it is possible for the crank to move towards the front of the engine. It is then possible for a thrust washer on the end of the crank against the rear of the engine case to come adrift of its locating pins. If this happens, when you replace the flywheel and start to tighten everything up, this washer gets jammed (at least) or bent (at worst).   Then you have to dismantle the whole engine and remove the crankshaft. So the safe procedure is to put a small block of wood on the front of the crank and then lightly put your front cover back on and just snug up the bolts to provide a little tension.
Blocking the crank is nothing to do with removing the bolts for the flywheel.  An easy way to do this is too use your 10/12mm ring spanner in the toolkit. Loop one end over the top right gearbox stud on the back of the engine and use a clutch bolt and line the other end of the spanner up to a clutch bolt hole.

And no you don't need to remove the engine to remove the flywheel. Plenty of room to work in place.

Chris

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Chris pretty well covers it.  I had never heard of using the short ring spanner to hold the flywheel.  That is certainly easier than making the tool that Haynes describes:
http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/72721434
http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/72721432


For blocking the front of the crankshaft, a common method is a short piece of allen wrench in the alternator bolt, again, with the front cover holding it in place, not too tight.

And don't just start removing clutch bolts!  You need three bolts with nuts for the removal process.

Haynes specifies M8x50, but I have two sets, the others being M6, so it is possible the R65's had smaller bolts.  I had a R100 engine for a while in the conversion rig, which is probably why I have the larger ones, as well.
Remove every-other clutch bolt.  Put in your "special tools" and run the nuts down against the clutch cover.
Then remove the remaining three bolts.
Going around in a circle, back off the nuts on the bolts, slowly releasing the spring pressure.
Sometimes the cover will stick in place.  If it does, make sure the bolts/nuts are secure, and tap lightly on the cover to pop it off.
THIS IS POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS, as the spring has a lot of stored energy, and you don't want that 'energy' in your face!

[Chris_in_BC]

[quote
And don't just start removing clutch bolts!  You need three bolts with nuts for the removal process.
[/quote]

Rob is definitely correct here for all engines prior to 1981. When BMW changed to the lightweight flywheel (now called a clutch carrier) all the tension problems went away. You can just slacken off the bolts all the way around and the clutch will have no tension on it, well before you have reached the end of the bolts.

Chris


PS Boy, I like this spell check capability  

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Thanks Chris.  I've never seen one of those new-fangled clutch assemblies!