Bike that sat - what's a good plan of attack?

[Maybe Magpie]

Hi all,

I bought a early 80s short-frame R65 that had sat a little while but run regularly in 2020 - however, problem is that my E30 (another toxic love affair with the Bavarians) has consistently eaten up my maintenance dollars right as I'm about to start addressing the bike. I've kept it covered and drained the fuel system a while back but I'm sure she needs some work, and I know of the following issues:

- Brakes are sticky/stuck. Pushing the bike is a huge pain in the ass, if at all possible. Not surprising. Pointers welcome.
- Final drive weeping oil, and a lot of it. I would not be surprised if it's emptied out at this point. This is the one that concerns me most.
- Tires were pretty new and low mileage, but... egh. I don't see cracking and our climate is mild but I'm aware needing to handle them may be necessary.
- I did my best to drain the gas a while ago and before that I put fuel stabilizer in it, but I'd imagine her carbs will be quite grumpy anyway...
- Battery's dead (my fault), and she hasn't been run in a couple years (also my fault). Yes, yes, I know. Long story short: Battery died because I went too long between running it, then lost the key and I have to re-register the bike to get a new key, because they won't take the bill of sale and title at the dealership, and I need the key to take stuff off to get at the battery...

... and so on. I didn't want to register it until I had my motorcycle endorsement and a running bike, but I feel woefully guilty about letting it sit and don't want her to rot any more than she has. While I plan to register her and get a new key soon, I was hoping for any wisdom on common pain points for a bike that, while in decent shape and ran-when-parked, needs some TLC. I have some fogging oil on hand I intend to use, but I'm only really familiar with working on my car and the bike's mostly terra incognita for me. I would much appreciate advice and suggestions! I know of various good vendors and Snowbum's already, and I have some fluids and extra bits and bobs on hand and basic tools, but I'm humble enough to know that there's stuff I don't know I don't know, haha.

I've found the right caliper rebuild kits and so on, but I suppose I'm curious what are sensible while-you're-in-there-s and OEM+ upgrades worth doing while I'm at it, or old-hand tricks of the trade. Rest assured I'm fairly purist so this thing will be spared any cafe silliness, that's not really my style. Is my hunch this is probably a caliper issue correct, or should I be prepared to rebuild my primary brake cylinder? I've heard plenty of griping about black-label bings like mine has, is it possible to rebuild them into silvers with different internal components or should I just freshen them up if they need it and save for silvers another day?

All ears, and thanks in advance.

[Barry]

Which caliper does it have ?

If it's an Ate then the pistons are prone to corrosion and may be beyond redemption.  The spares for Ate are expensive and a better option might be to replace it with the Brembo caliper from an 81 onwards model or better still for an upgrade find a 38mm Brembo in place of the 36mm which will improve the brakes.

[dogshome]

Hiya,

Brakes - could be a combo of soft caliper seals and corrosion in the master cylinder. I have Brembo calipers, replaced seal. Master cylinder was properly gunked with white fur on the outside and a bit inside plus tiny bits of rubber. That responded to new seal, clean up particularly the pin hole that had blocked.

Real axle leak. Probably main seal, is a standard metric size and quite easy to swap using a coke can as a guide. Getting the FD out with back wheel out is quicker than taking the wheel out by itself if you have panniers and standard exhausts.

Tyres. Since you can be MOT exempt, if they are in VGC and retain air, personally I'd run them. If 15 to 20 years old, well probably not!

Gas. Fit an inline fuel filter. Strip and clean carbs, including the inside of the brass fuel pipe spigots with a pipe cleaner or similar. Weigh floats, as they deteriorate and get heavy after years in petrol. Replace if they have become porous. Chuck the horrible cork main gaskets and fit neoprene ones. Check the vacuum rubbers at the top for cracks or stiffness. Balancing becomes a lot easier if your cables are good (clean and mobile) and routed freely.

Battery. Easy answer, just replace it. The short wheelbase bikes have smaller capacity batteries, so current rating, condition and the condition of the starter motor all matter. The original non-reduction starter can hog current if it's not been cleaned in a while.


Anything else? Anything rubber will probably give up at some point if its original. Gear shifter seal, wheel bearing seals etc. All standard metric stuff that you do not need to buy with a BMW part number. Just the metric size from any bearing supplier. Then service items, oil, filter, tappets, wheel & head & swingarm check and lubrication. Fork oil when you get to them. Oh, points and timing on your early bike. Tooke me about a year of tinkering on and off to get it to a 'good as new' condition, now I just do service items. Didn't stop riding it though.

[Maybe Magpie]

Which caliper does it have ?

If it's an Ate then the pistons are prone to corrosion and may be beyond redemption.  The spares for Ate are expensive and a better option might be to replace it with the Brembo caliper from an 81 onwards model or better still for an upgrade find a 38mm Brembo in place of the 36mm which will improve the brakes.

ATEs, yeah. Boxer2valve has new pistons in stock for 56 a pop but I'll see if they're corroded and/or could be breathed back to life for a while with some chrome polish and 0000 steel wool or something before I resort to that. It's a twin-disc short-frame dual-shock, I forget if it's 80, 81, or 82 - I'll have to dig up the VIN to check. I'll look into if the Brembo is a wiser choice for the value, though — thank you! What do those usually run? I imagine I'll need two and should rebuild them before installing them just to save myself later trouble. According to RealOEM I probably have a 15mm primary cylinder, though I'll take a peek to see if that's actually the case because I know how 30+ years of owners can go from my four-wheeled abusive relationship. Mine is handlebar-mounted rather than tank-mounted however, does that mean it's 16mm given it's a dual disk?

[good advice omitted for post limit reasons]

Once I have it registered and keyed again I'll try chipping away at some progress on this stuff money permitting. Good to know about the wheel trick! That's exactly the sort of information I was after, best-practice shortcuts, my bike does in fact have both panniers and stock exhaust pipes. As said I intend to bleed the brakes and handle the fuel system and final drive — should I change my engine oil while I'm at it or get a few miles out of it before I bother? It was fairly fresh when parked, but that was a good while ago, so once I've got the brakes, battery, and final drive sorted out I want to be kind to her on first start in a while when it happens (thus the fogging oil I have). Any good wakeup tips aside from give her time to warm up? She chugged just like my memories of my dad's R69S when idling in a good way last time I let her do so for a bit, so I doubt the valve clearances or other stuff like that are screwy.

Tires are about 5-6 years old. I did drain the tank and the carbs as best I could but I would not be surprised if the floats and gaskets and diaphragms are crusty, and thanks for the fuel filter recommendation. Where do you tend to mount that, in the lines between the petcock and carb? I've read that Bing housings tend to be almost identical aside from diameter depending on displacement — if they're for a bing of identical diameter and such, would silver-label bing components fit in a black-label bing carb? I've never really dealt with carburetors before, my E30 is EFI as all US-market ones were but I get the theory and broad strokes that it's just another route to atomizing fuel and air in the right ratio. I might let an old hand rebuild the fiddly bits as I'm somewhat of a klutz, but gaskets I can do and I'm happy to try my hand at synching.

While there's some upgrades I'd like to do when money permits just because I like to OEM+ - the Siebenrock enduro sump, Gold valve emulators, an oil cooler and perhaps one of those nifty ignition upgrade kits - I'm mostly just wanting to ride the damn thing in the end so that takes priority over whizzbang stuff. I'm well familiar with rubber and plastic going gnarly, though this bike was pretty well maintained up til my purchase and I want to make amends for the E30 (which is where the familiarity comes from...) eating up my motor budget, ha.

Much appreciated. Do feel free to let me know if there's a best order of operations or other stuff I should tackle while I'm at it. The B2V final drive tools look very handy but are quite pricey and I lack a welder or drill press, but I do have an impact wrench, torque wrench, and some metric hand tools and the like. Any alternatives or should I just buckle under and deal? Anything handy that's airhead-specific out there overall?

Edit: Double checked via VIN, it's code 0364 - USA spec 05/1981.

Here's a pic from before she sat for a while... she's dustier and grubbier and a bit in need of TLC and a good bath but in largely the same shape right now. Are those euro bars the PO put on?

[georgesgiralt]

Hi !
If I where in your shoes, I would check safety first, ensuring the bike has good serviceable brakes, then change fluids including the forks then I'll ride it and see how it goes.
I then decide what's next in to do list...
But depending on regulations in your part of the world, you must be forced to change the tires before even considering bringing her to MOT...
So YMMV ...

[dogshome]

Nice colour 

[Maybe Magpie]

Hi !
If I where in your shoes, I would check safety first, ensuring the bike has good serviceable brakes, then change fluids including the forks then I'll ride it and see how it goes.
I then decide what's next in to do list...
But depending on regulations in your part of the world, you must be forced to change the tires before even considering bringing her to MOT...
So YMMV ...

Basically nil. I plan to register it as a collector vehicle as it's over the age threshold and once I have, I won't need to fret yearly tags. Even so I'll keep an eye on the rubber. I'll look into some fork fluid - any recommendations on brands? I have some motor and gear oil that's to-spec that was also included in the sale, with some extra goodies like valve covers and other little spares. Admittedly I still need a motorcycle endorsement, but I at least want to get her running again in the meantime so that when I do I can get her to a nice cozy shed I can use across town to store her over winter rather than her languishing under a cover on my apartment patio.  I took a look at the Brembo caliper swap and whoof, that's a bit spendy - I'll see if I can get the ATE pistons unstuck if they're the culprit and not the primary cylinder. If they're toast I'll just get the replacement ones for half the cost of one brembo caliper, let alone two. That and the soft-bit rebuild kits are economical and easily had over here, so easy choice. I'll see if the MC is still in good shape before I throw the parts cannon at the thing, too.
 

Nice colour 

Thanks! Honestly, it was neither my doing nor preference but the price was right. I'd prefer something more lemon or banana or egg yolk to the current sickly canary or ancient faded schoolbus shade, but the pearlescence is nice and someone clearly loved it as it's custom mixed and the hand pinstriping and has touchup cans included in the sale. Stripping the paint would be a darned shame so while I intend to change the colors of the painted bits once the mechanicals are sorted I'm going to leave the paint as-is and just wrap the tank and other bits and so on. Maybe a nice Macaublau if I can, period BMW M 4-wheel color... I like to liken it to a black plum that got a sneezeful of glitter, but the paint will be still there underneath untouched.  Are the bars on there what you had across the pond I take it? I believe I have the original US ones included in the spares box, but I ask to ensure if I replace the brake hoses with stainless ones that they're the right ones.

On the mechanical front, while Boxer2Valve has some nifty tools for final drive refurbishment they're a bit spendy for single-purpose items that I don't see myself using much. Are there any insider tricks to resealing that sucker without the special doohickies (outside of the soda can one)? Any tips for driving seals that doesn't require a whole set of the things I don't need?

[dogshome]

Bars. I have the highest RT type. The top hose is longer. Part numbers are a bit of a nightmare with these and it is best to measure what you're got.

Soda can and a blunt drift are all you need for the FD main seal. Oh and a drill and self tapper to puncture it to get a start. You may have some luck with a seal puller (small meat hook!), but because the inner parts stay in place, an edge to pry on is easier. Pry under the screw head.

The seal will come out bent, mangled and with holes in it. But without damage to the metal parts and no disassembly.

Check back when you have a new seal and are ready to go.

[dogshome]

I like the yellow. Very 'period'. Not the right period, but classy.

[Maybe Magpie]

Bars. I have the highest RT type. The top hose is longer. Part numbers are a bit of a nightmare with these and it is best to measure what you're got.

Soda can and a blunt drift are all you need for the FD main seal. Oh and a drill and self tapper to puncture it to get a start. You may have some luck with a seal puller (small meat hook!), but because the inner parts stay in place, an edge to pry on is easier. Pry under the screw head.

The seal will come out bent, mangled and with holes in it. But without damage to the metal parts and no disassembly.

Check back when you have a new seal and are ready to go.

Right, which ones do they look like to you? The bars, I mean, on mine. For the rest, will do. I'm mostly concerned with driving the new one down in place evenly, properly, and without any damage to it in the process. I'll try to make sure I clear out the weep holes too. I'm not too concerned with getting the old one out. I'll check which seal it is that's actually failed next time I have a bit to putter around on my patio.

Thankfully I just so happen to already have some caliper rebuild seal kits and carb floats on hand included with the sale I forgot I had, so I might just order another set for extras to have on hand and use the ones I have to do the fix(es). What brake fluid do you recommend, or is it any of the appropriate DOT standard?

[dogshome]

I'm going to say LS. If you look at pics of an R65LS, they look the same height.

[Tony Smith]

This is a bit of an omnibus reply as I have read most of the previous comments.

ATE calipers. There is nothing wrong with these except as a co dition of the licence given to ATE by Brembo, the freely available Brembo disc pads don't fit (they can be adjusted though) and the big one - whereas Brembo uses polished and anodised alloy pistons ATE use bright mild steel with a layer of chrome. Add a few decades and the chrome falls off, the steel piston corroded and you have  brake problems.

I used to rebuild ATE calipers but I don't now as Brembo calipers and their clones are now cheaply available.

Other brake matters.

If you still have the OEM brake hose - put it in the bin. Venhill make superb replacements.

If you have a round master cylinder there are no parts available. Later square tank master cylinders are still available. It you have twin discs the best size is 13mm, for a single caliper 12mm (it regardless of the caliper piston size).

Beware that many of the Brembo calipers available are the FO9 type made for the K100. You need FO8s as the K100 type will not fit due to different I thermal spacing, they will bolt on perfectly but your wheels will not fit.

Final drive

The 79/80 model had "smooth case" gearbox and final drive (82 on has pressure cast parts and are called "ribbed".
Changing the big seal is essentially the same on both models - undo
The bolts holding the inner plate then heat the outer of the FD to "spit sizzle" temperature and then use two M5*40 bolts to press the inner out.

Now it gets interesting - the later pressure cast parts needs no special care to install the new seal, just knock it in until it seats. BUT the smooth case you must measure the installed depth of the seal and match that installed depth with the new seal. If you don't you will have leaks -aso me how I know......

No R65 had an under tank master cylinder.

Lastly a petty correction. The R65 has exactly the same main frame size as the bigger airheads. The R65 was made to look smaller by:-

Narrower shorter stroke engine
Shorter front forks
Shorter rear swing arm
18" front wheel.

[dogshome]

Hi Tony, I didn't need to split the FD to change the main seal. neither did my friend who has done it a few times. You just drill it, spear it and hook it on the barbie. Or something like that 

Yeah, nah, don't need to split 

As to depth, yes the later casting also requires that you don't keep pushing. Once the top of the seal is flush with the housing, stop. You can seat it further in, but then the lip doesn't engage with the rotating part fully and you get a proper leak. My friend discovered that, I confirmed it by pointing it out to him. Much to his disgust.

Keith.

65 x 85 x 10 standard metric seal.

[Maybe Magpie]

Hi again all. I appreciate the previous responses. I have some more questions, but  first an update:

I've successfully registered the bike and gotten a new plate for it, that's sorted. Classic rego so I won't have to pay yearly, one-and-done. Bad news: I can't find my key still and the dealer can't find the bitting by VIN. The local locksmiths say if I can get the cylinders out of the bike they can reverse-engineer the bitting code from the pins; the problem is my seat lock and gascap lock and ignition lock are all... well, locked! All the guides I found online seem to assume you either have a key, or the ignition SWITCH, and not the ignition TUMBLER or barrel or whatever you want to call the actual lock itself, is what you want to get at (not the case for me). I've managed to work out the keyblank spec is equivalent to a Y61/YC61 type among others, but I haven't quite figured out what lockpick set would fit that (it's not illegal to lockpick your own property here in the US!) so in the interim I thought I'd ask if any of you had any pointers as to how to get one or more of those locks out without damaging the bike in the process.

Other questions of less immediate importance:

- What is the ratio of the final drive of these bikes? As said I have an 05/81 US spec. I am going to source a used spare unit to have on hand in my parts reserve but to my understanding the bigger displacement bikes of similar years (/7 R80s, R90s, R100s) may have different ratios and didn’t want to get something with the wrong ratio.

- I’ve been told old airheads “like” gasoline with as low an ethanol content as you can get due to valve seats, hose composition, and so on and that too low an octane rating will cause knocking, what gas and/or additives do you recommend for a /7 bike like this? I know US AKI and overseas RON etc differ a bit, but around here the highest octane gasoline I can easily get is typically 91 AKI, which if I'm not mistaken is roughly 93 RON. I theoretically can acquire 100LL aviation gasoline at a nearby seaplane operating ramp, but I'd rather not do that for environmental reasons even if nobody's going to come hassling me for it — that stuff is also quite expensive, too.

- If I get the final drive off, what's the best way for me to check if the bike ever have any recall work addressed? I know some airhead R-series have a notorious driveshaft and transmission Achilles’ heel in where they didn’t have a circlip fitted in the drivetrain but some had this remedied but I don’t recall what years that covers and what the best route of verifying that is. In addition, what certain years and sizes of front “snowflake” alloy wheels were subject to recall due to design flaws and cracking as well? I just wanted to know if I need to address these or if they’ve already likely been handled before I get shoulder deep in the motorcycle, I like knowing what to expect.

-  To what extent do Bing components interchange? i.e. if I got small-bore silver label bing internals (if they exist), what would fit my small-bore black-labels? Would that be an improvement? Finding info on this has been a hassle.

- Any other recommendations on awakening the beast? I am planning to get a new battery, filling her up with fresh fuel (I drained the system some time ago) and using fogging oil in the cylinders before I try to start her.  She also needs new tires from sitting (my fault) so I'm looking at michelin road classics, I've never changed a bike tire before but I'm open to pointers there too. She ran smoothly when parked so I'm not too worried about timing or valve clearance, though I will check those for good measure once I have the bike actually operating. My plan with the advice so far in mind is to get the big stuff then refine from there, so once the locks are outta the way, electrics (new battery) and getting her running stationary is next, then final drive, then tires and brakes etc.

I would normally change the oil first off but the finickiness of the infamous o-ring inclines me to just leave the damn filter and fluid (which was low mileage though it's now 5 years old) in place until she's all sorted out otherwise to avoid hamstringing myself with a much worse problem than I started with. Better old oil than oil starvation, I think.