Relay Question

[Chris_in_BC]

Hi Bill,
Ok just pulled the headlight relay on my '81 G/S (sorry only bike that is apart at the moment)
Relay is metal case #0332014404 but it is a 4 pin -- 86, 87, 85, 30

Question .. my female plug is plastic and is capable of holding 5 pins but there isn't actually a pin in the centre hole. Do you actually have 5 physical wires into the plug?

Chris

Attached real ugly and quick terminal layout

[Bill Conquest]

Hi Chris - Thanks for the reply! My female plastic plug has 5 slots but one was blocked off w/ a plastic sleeve & has only 4 wires( orsets of wires) going to it. my relay has a middle pin but no back pin.#s are 30,86,85 & 87a(middle). The jumper wire makes the lights work - would it damage anything to ride around like that?

[Chris_in_BC]

The jumper wire makes the lights work - would it damage anything to ride around like that?

Bill,
 Not really. The idea of the relay is allow the power to the headlight to cut out when you hit the starter. So you don't drain the battery as much with a combination load of headlight and starter.
So jumping it will give you lights but is harder on the battery during starting.

You said you tried the old relay that came with the bike and the lights worked, why not put that in?

More testing ideas..
With ignition on, relay out, put a test light on female plug 85 which is black and from there to battery ground. Should get illumination. yes/no? If no then check black wire which goes next to the starter relay.

Female plug 86 should be brown and should be a ground. One way to test would be, relay out, ignition OFF, run test light from battery positive to 86. Should illuminate. Basically you are forcing power backwards through circuit, but it will only illuminate if the ground wires are good. If it doesn't then there is a broken ground somewhere. This ground joins up with all the other grounds from headlight, dash lights etc.

You do need a relay with the 87a, because 87 and 87a do opposite things. Think 87 gets power when 85,86 is closed and 87a gets power when 85,86 are open.

If Bobs relay has the  right plug layout, all except that it is 87 instead of 87a, you should be able to go to a NAPA , show them the relay and ask them to get you an identical one but with 87a.

Sorry I am so long winded.
Good luck.
Chris

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Chris said: Sorry I am so long winded.

I am just glad we have you here, Chris.  I would be hard pressed to figure this out on my own bike.
 
Amazing how I can conceptualize the workings of the unknown universe, but an airhead's more subtle electrical systems leave me dumbfounded!

[Bill Conquest]

Hey Chris - Thanks for the great ideas - i'd use the old relay but it was working intermittently, when i squeezed the case it would work. I thought it was a bad plug receptacle but none of the other relays would work when I moved them around, so I assumed the relay had a problem. If I can find a new one of these relays that will answer that!  I'll try the tests tomorrow & also check at Nappa Auto for a relay. You are amazing, Chris - thanks for your knowledge! Aloha, Bill Conquest

[klingtut]

Bill,

open up your fuse box and check to see if both fuses are in tack - they are the metal strip over ceramic kind. I was being driven crazy for not having functioning turn signals - I knew they worked before I took things apart but on reassembly they would not work proerly - they would work if I held the high beam flasher switch down made me nutz until I figured out to look st the fuses.  Maybe it is just this simple, but at least it is very easy to check - if the fuse is blown replace or if you're out of fuses jumper the terminals to test if it solves the problem.

it took me a lomg time to realize that there even was a fuse box on the bloody machine - under the frame downtube where it wishbones - the cover about 2 inch rectangle has a knuruled screw that loosen and withdraws so the cover can be removed and the fuses inspected.

good luck

Kling Tut

[Justin B.]

Bill, I've never been inside of one of these relays but how easy does it look like it would be to get the metal can/cover off?  I have performed "surgery" on various old Volvo relays with good results.  Some of the Volvo relays actually contain a small PCB that often have cold/defective solder joints.  Your ability to get it to work by squeezing the relay makes me wonder...

[nhmaf]

Yes, there might be an intermittent within the relay.  Or, maybe the blades on the relay
(or the wipers in the socket into which it plugs) are bent a little such that they make loose,
or intermittent/no contact when the relay is inserted into the socket ?   Squeezing the relay
might be deflecting the terminals just enough to cause it to contact the wiper in the socket ?

[Chris_in_BC]

You can get the relays apart, but all you can really work on inside is the set of points. A little emery to clean up the contacts.  A lot of of the time though  there is a break in the very fine wire in the coil. Nothing possible to fix here and it is normally a heat related failure anyway, so intermittent.

For $10 , easier to replace the relay.. assuming you can get the right one , which is part of Bill's problem  

Also , regarding Bill's problem with headlight, it can have nothing to do with the fuses. The fuses only effect, parking light, tail and brake lights, horn and turn signals.  Ignition lights, starter and headlight (both low and high) are not run through the 2 fuses.
And of general interest, brake and tail light go through opposite fuses, so you should always have the capability of a light at the rear (riding the rear brake for instance to get you home)

[Bill Conquest]

Thanks for all the great ideas & observations,everyone,will try will try everything as soon as work schedule allows! First stop is Nappa auto to see if I can find a relay, but want to look inside the one that doesn't work,maybe i'll get lucky! Thanks, Bill Conquest

[Justin B.]

Bill, yeah, you have nothing to loose by tearing it apart but if it is strictly a mechanical relay you are pretty much limited to cleaning the contacts as Chris noted.  The Volvo relays I have repaired (fuel pump, overdrive, etc.) actually contained a small PCB.

Good luck!

[Bill Conquest]

Thanks Justin, i'm going to try that today & will let you know what happens. Aloha, Bill Conquest