Ride in AA recovery truck and tubeless tyres

[PhilipW]

There is a clue in the MT 3.5 designation in picture 2 which suggests the tyre should be mounted on a 3.5" MT rim.   MT rims are for tubeless tyres.

So I guess that even though BMW are fitting wheels that require a tube to be fitted they are specifying tubeless rims as a safety measure ? So in theory if I get a puncture the tyre is more likely to stay on the rim rather than peel off . Why BMW are continuing down this route escapes me . I would have been happier with alloy wheels although there are now lots of options for spoked  wheels that will take tubeless tyres .

[dogshome]

I have noticed these modernish Classic Attack are very much like car tyres. Rigid. Also a lot of rubber forming a thick crown and are no longer a simple round shape.

Once I've got them off, if the rims look clean and shiney I will consider running tubeless. I'll get some proper lubricant / sealant, although my experience with car wheels is that the surface finish is far more important. 2 minutes with a wire wheel solves any leaks. Tubeless are safer whatever rim shape. An inner tube will definitely deflate suddenly, whereas a tubeless will generally not.

I have to put air in every 2 weeks with tubes due to their nature. Maybe 3 or 4PSI loss. Pushbike tubes do the same except faster. So a little rim loss won't concern me too much. Only issue now is going against Bobs advice 

[georgesgiralt]

Tubeless are safer whatever rim shape. An inner tube will definitely deflate suddenly, whereas a tubeless will generally not.

May I respectfully disagree with you ?
I had a flat with my CBF600SA6 Honda which ran tubeless and the tire deflated in less than 50 meters. (I actually saw the nail but couldn't avoid it). And I was unable to reach the repair station at around 1km from the puncture point. The tire dismounted itself from the rim.
And a few days after this, I ran on quite the same predicament with the BMW R65 and the tube allowed me to return home at near 1 km from the puncture point.
So your mileage actually vary ;-)
On the other hand, my front wheel fitted with Michelin Pilot Activ and a Michelin tube deflated in less than 5 meters when I tried to ride the bike after having put the tire on. The tube was badly pinched and died when I put weight on it....
So definitely, YMMV !

[dogshome]

Hey, if there were no disgreement, life would be pretty boring    On the other hand serious disagreements that last for eons and encompass whole countries is something else 

I am on the fence (still looking for big kahoonas) and the fence isn't helping with finding them

Once I get the old ones off and have a look I will report back. If not Kahoonas found, then the tubes are going back in 

[Burt]

When I bought my R65 in 1985, tubeless tyres were not available to all new motos that were on the market when compared to today.   Quite obviously tyre technology along with rims has improved.  Mine came with tubes so next tyre change I will ask the the tyre bloke what he recommends.    

[dogshome]

Been in Spain for a week  Dropped in at Iguana Custom shop and Only Scooter and Bikes on the way to the Sagrada Familia.

So back to blighty and tyres. Pic of 110/90 vs original 120/90. The 120 is a complete cowbag to remove from a short swingarm R65 with Krauser panner frames  Taking the FD of makes it easy, but I wasn't going there!

Also the tyre is dated 2011 which ties up with my thoughts that it has been on there 10 years. Breaking the beads was hugely difficult. My last resort was jacking the car up and lowering it onto the tyre. I should have done that. Much twatting about with G clamps and finally my trusty vice did it. I won't bother for the front, just get the 2300kG Saab up in the air and lower her onto a bit of wood to completly squash the tyre.

Getting tyre off the rim was quite easy 

The 120 has about 2~3mm left, but has worn in a weird way like the front. I don't do much straight line riding, always on the curves. So the hard middle blocks stand proud and the soft shoulders are scuffed and worn. I've wire brushed the considerable corrosion and rubber gunk off the inside of the rim. I will be fitting tubes again as is is a bit grotty. The Saab wheels are in similar condition and suffer occasional slow rim leaks. Brutal wire wheeling usualy sorts them out, until the next time.

[Barry]

Also the tyre is dated 2011 which ties up with my thoughts that it has been on there 10 years. Breaking the beads was hugely difficult. My last resort was jacking the car up and lowering it onto the tyre. I should have done that. Much twatting about with G clamps and finally my trusty vice did it. I won't bother for the front, just get the 2300kG Saab up in the air and lower her onto a bit of wood to completly squash the tyre.

Worked a treat when I tried it on a 26 year old tyre.

[dogshome]

 

[PhilipW]

I have read this thread , and others like it elsewhere , with great interest . One of my big concerns , in the UK at least , would be the insurance implications of running a tyre tubeless on a rim that the manufacturer specifically states is to be used tubed . In the event of an accident I think the investigator would raise major concerns about safety and use this as an excuse to not pay out

[Barry]

While the concern of voiding the insurance is legitimate, unless wheel/tyre combination was clearly the cause of the accident, it would take an awfully clued up insurance investigator to spot the issue otherwise.
After all Snowflakes are something of an exception, it's uncommon for alloy wheels to be designed for only tube type tyres.

I haven't yet tried to run tubeless simply because I've always bought tube type tyres but my view of the safety aspect is influenced by the difficulty of breaking the bead. Tyres don't come off a snowflake that easily do they even when fully deflated.  Due to their stiffness I've no doubt that tubless tyres are even more difficult to break the bead. That would make me tend to worry less about snowflakes lacking the correct profile designed to retain the tyre in the event of deflation. 

[dogshome]

I can confirm these are a very tight fit on the bead. The bead had not budged despit being pushed 500M and then powered to get on the ramp of the truck, dead flat.

The new one is on and is a much better fit than the 120 in the swing arm. However, the last part of the bead won't rise up. Its been bounced, deflated, lubed etc. Putting 45 PSI didn't do it and I won't try higher. I've put it on the bike to see if a bit of bouncing and rolling will do it (hasn't yet) and have ordered some proper bead lube. Plan is to deflate, hose out any remaining dish soap, brush some stuff in and re-inflate.

The front one is looking like it will also be a SOAB. I have two 18" levers, plus three in the toolkit. All were needed to get both beads on. Combined with some plastic cut from a 5L can and some care, no rims were butchered today. I've learned things again and hopefully 'buy proper lube' is going to be one of them. The other is 'don't think of changing a modern tyre at the side of the road'. I don't remember having this much aggro back in the 80's, Trail tyres almost threw themselves off once deflated and road ones were just a bit tougher than pushbikes.

[wilcom]

" Putting 45 PSI didn't do it and I won't try higher."
I have gone to 75-80 on some tires before the bead would POP.

[dogshome]

Someone mentioned safety and insurance on the thread above? 

75-80 PSI 



Any feedback from others on this? (I'm still looking for Kahoonas) 

[Barry]

I've had to use 60 psi and that with a relatively easy to mount tyre. 

[dogshome]

It's on. 60PSI, a gollop of blue KY jelly and a ride up a bumpy road 

Metzeler site says DO NOT go over 45PSI. My mate (who was a lorry tyre fitter) says +50% on 42 which is 60-65 ish. He also said soapy water won't do it and he is right.


The old front tyre is laughing at me I swear  Do you feel lucky, punk? Do ya?