R65-LS 82 with sidecar

[steve206]

Hello folks.  I am on my 3rd BMW.  Had a 75 R75/6.  A K75 '94. and now the R65-LS '82.  I have always had a dog and as the years have come and gone and the bike is too hard to push back home without getting tired and having it fall to the road and bending mirrors and such, I decided to get a side car.  I had done some diligence and saw a R65-LS with sidecar attached, tooling around a parking lot.

Got a Velorex 562 or some number and it came with the universal mounting system.  Being an Airstreamer without a garage,I tried to attach the sidecar single handed, without a jig or proper tools.  Talked to a guy who rode with one and he consented to do the work.

The bike does not want to steer to the left and it pretty much negates the whole idea.  My choice of mechanic was either a mistake or, the bike with it's cafe racer influences, is not the platform for a side car.  I might even be willing to change the handlebars to get a wider dynamic force on the steering.

Or, is it a bad idea?  I am not going very fast and have no wish to.  Just want to take the dog along.

I am ready to get another stab at it but would like other's history on the idea.

Thanks ahead,

[Justin B.]

I seem to remember a member here that has a 65 with a chair but I can't remember who.  Hopefully they will chime in.

[wilcom]

Sounds like a Sidecar issue. Like Justin said there is a person on this site that uses a R65 for a tug with no complaints.

You might check with these folks. They are close to you


Florida Sidecar Products
727-856-2836

http://floridasidecarproducts.com/

[dogshome]

I use my pushbike with my two greyhounds. One is steady so she goes on the inside. The other one is skittish so he goes outside. I have to limit the speed a lot of it could go paws up very quickly. They think it's hilarious I can almost keep up with them off the lead.

The dogs go in the car with us on holiday. Greyhound s like to either be stood up of flat out. Sitting or sphinx position doesn't last many seconds. I have no chance getting them into a chair!

Cats, small dogs etc don't other them in the car. Heads up in a chair might be a different story.

Pleas get some pics of your setup with dog copilot when you have it sorted 

[Carott]

Steve,

Sidecar alignment is critical. It will make the difference between an enjoyable ride and wrestleing with a bear. The attached chart can help resolve a lot of these issues.
There are a lot of good resources in the sidecar design section of ADV Rider's Hacks forum.
The second critical item is learning to drive a sidecar rig. It is nothing like riding a motorcycle other than the controls are in the same places. Practice, practice, practice before you take on passengers or get into traffic.

Good luck and be patient,

Brett

[wilcom]

Member "BPT" has a R65 with sidecar and member "marcmax" is a former hacker.... you might reach out to them.

[Burt]

Well here goes.  By the way I do not own a sidecar but have been a passenger a number of times but that was a long time ago.  Usually long trips. 

I know a few people that currently have sidecars but they are all based on the BMW K100.  There is one that is currently having the chair attached but it is a HD soft tail which is causing problems.  From what I have picked up, a lot of the knowledge is learnt first hand and it takes a while to learn who are the right people to talk to.  This is all here in Australia and I was on a trip last weekend with one of them.  I have not seen a R series BMW sidecar for many years.  Although Goldwings and Yammy XS1.1s were popular in their day. 

One of the things that makes a big difference is to have an Earls fork style of front end installed.  Also most run car tyres in combination with this.  Essentially you are saving on tyres using a square profile tyre both front and rear.  The rear wheel will more than likely be a modified hub with spacer.  I think there is an offset here. 

I realise that you are talking about a R series BMW and wish to use motorcycle tryes.  By having your hound as a passenger you will be keeping the chair fairly light, so a bit like having no passenger.  The rig should be set up for both with and without. 

There still are people around who will manufacture Earles Fork style front ends for sidecars with the necessary engineering approval to issue a roadworthy certificate to enable legal registration.  However these people are limited and expect a significant delay in having them fitted and they are not cheap. 

In the US there may be sidecar clubs around and they will be your first point of contact as they will know who to contact for the work.  Their own expertise will also be substantial as well. 

Most of the sidecar people I have known over the years have ridden them all over Australia with the corresponding cracks, breaks and broken frames.  I have seen sidecar frames being welded and strengthened in placers where bitumen roads are hundreds of kilometres away. 

If you wish I can put you onto my other BMW forum where you can introduce yourself and start firing away your questions.  Send me a private message if you like. 

One final point.  A sidecar is always a compromise of different engineering principles fighting against each other.  Peoples opinions differ because they have learnt from their own experience. 

Cheers, Dave. 

[dogshome]

This looks more complicated than setting an FD up!

P.S. My english G hounds are quite light at 27 and 25kg. My previous Irish girls were 28 and 32kG. Mel and Kim. Mel was a big girl and built like the Hulk but soft as a brush. The doggo in the OP looks a good 20kg to me :-)

The current pack in the pic. Guess which one is my daughters!??

[dogshome]

Mel (Blondie) and Kim.

[BPT]

I'm one of the ones here with a sidecar. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I'd be much help with the setup since I bought mine already put together. I can say that the R65 is definitely suitable for one and I happen to have the Velorex 562 on mine so that shouldn't be a problem. I think Marcmax had a 562 as well? 
 
I've heard a lot of folks talk about how the Velorex universal mounting hardware is not all that great. But, iirc, it was usually that it wasn't sturdy enough, not anything with adjustability. Mine has a combo of the Velorex hardware along with some custom bits so, again, I can't tell much about the stock stuff.

It seems odd that it would be so different turning in one direction vs. the other. That sounds like a setup/adjustment type problem but I can't say for sure.  One thing with steering and sidecar rigs has to do with the fork rake.  The guy who built mine had designed his own triple trees which changed the rake and made steering easier.  I *think* there might be a few places that have done similar but, unfortunately, they are never cheap. Same with the Earles forks. With no changes to the forks, steering will be more difficult but I don't recall hearing that one side would be drastically different than the other.  As for the bars, I honestly don't know if mine are stock R65 bars or not.  I have moved mine around to try and get more leverage and it is surprising how much difference just a little change in angle can make.  I intend to try some taller and wider ones at some point to see if that will help even more but haven't gotten around to that yet (since I think that might also require changing cables and the brake line).

If we're lucky, maybe Marcmax will chime in.  I think he would be more help than I am since (I believe?) he did more of his own setup and also had a stock front end.

I can say don't give up just yet, your combination should work.  It might take a little bit to figure out what the problem is though.  I'm happy to try and answer any questions you have.
If you do Facebook, there are several sidecar specific groups there where you might be able to get more input and from a variety of people (that's both good and bad).  There is also a lot of sidecar stuff on ADVRider.  Let me know if there's anything I can try and answer for you.

[Kurt V.]

Go up and look at the chart that Carot posted. The symptom you described is definitely a toe in or toe out situation. I don’t believe it has anything to do with the front end of the motorcycle it is attached to. I own a vesper and there are people riding around with side cars on Vespas!

[steve206]

I want to reach out and thank all of you folks for chiming in with help in your hearts and a desire to show off your own dogs.  When I got the sidecar,,,The owner and I took it off of his R100.in about two hours.  Had a box of bolt on parts with threaded shafts and attachment hardware.  Came with the original part list and instructions on how to bolt it up.

When I got it back from the first attempt, I found where the guy had got his welder out of the corner and improvised something under the motor.  Attachments to the frame and not the engine, thank god. 

Again,,I thank all for their input and the dream still lives,,,,When I get closer I will send pics of smiles with bugs in the teeth.

Steve

[nhmaf]

I recommend contacting the folks at DMC sidecars on West coast, or Freedom Sidecars in PA.  They both have alot of experience with sidecars and with velorex units.  I even have a subframe kit from DMC to attach to my R100 for sidecar hookup.  The R65 frame dimensions aren't the same, but I bet they can steer you in the proper direction on how best to connect the units together.  The U-clamps stuff that comes from Velorex is really awful - or at least it used to be, and I wouldn't use it for multiple reasons.

I also recommend that you find and obtain a copy of the "Yellow book", which is sort of a bible on the basics of sidecar setup and handling.
It is titled "Driving a Sidecar Outfit" and was published by the USCA (US Sidecar Association).