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Author Topic: V.I.N. and Snowbum  (Read 3960 times)

Offline Air4Life

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V.I.N. and Snowbum
« on: June 15, 2012, 05:30:36 PM »
The following 0 had no meaning, that is, it was there and had no special meaning on my version of the BMW SI.

Next comes the 9th character, a check digit, the 4 in the case of the R65, the 9 in the case of the R100RT. {edited out for our purposes here}

Next in the VIN is the letter identifying the PRODUCTION, NOT NECESSARILY CALENDAR year, and this is always in 10th position:

Notice the B in 10th position for the R65, and D in 10th position for the R100RT.  That letter is a YEAR code. This system is for U.S. production, that began in 1980.  
Officially, according to the adopted International Standards for official VIN 17 character numbers, the 11th position, in the examples, this is a "6", it is to identify the assembly plant.



Here is how the PRODUCTION/MODEL year of any motor vehicle  is identified:

(note!   BMW takes an annual vacation near the end of each year, vehicles produced after that vacation are normally identified with the following year,
as far as PRODUCTION/MODEL year is concerned, for official identification.


1980 vehicles used A                    
1981 vehicles used B
1982 vehicles used C
1983 vehicles used D
1984 vehicles used E
1985 vehicles used F
1986 vehicles used G
1987 vehicles used H
1988 vehicles used J
1989 vehicles used K
1990 vehicles used L
1991 vehicles used M
1992 vehicles used N
1993 vehicles used P
1994 vehicles used R
1995 vehicles used S
1996 vehicles used T
1997 vehicles used V
1998 vehicles used W
1999 vehicles used X
2000 vehicles used Y
2001 to 2009 vehicles use digits 1-9


Everything about this bike tells me its an r65 and likely considered a 1983.  But I find some contradiction to the above.

Considering the 9th indicates? Where the 10th is a r65 or r100rt or year?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 05:33:39 PM by Air4Life »
sold:
1983 33.8 E. Oil & Trans ?
Batt 10/06/2011
33.2 Head 35.5 (I0.005) ?(E0.009) 35.5
RearT 35.5 Spline 7/12 &
T.O.Bearing
C.U. Paste 5/12

Offline NC Steve

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 09:49:20 PM »
You can pretty much check this site for all the BMW info you might need.
I can't make out the VIN in your pics, but it ought to be in this spread, and you can always search other models, specs, paint codes, etc.

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/chassispages/enginechassis650.htm
'16 Triumph T100 Bonneville
'19 Royal Enfield Himalayan
82 R65-Blue II, 84 R65-Britta, 84 R65-Ol' Blue, 88 K75C, 99 R1100R
00 Guzzi Jackal, 89 Mille GT, 03 Cal Stone
07 Honda ST1300

Offline MrRiden

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 10:02:24 PM »
Having done some excruciating research in the past on my incorrectly recorded VIN and then promptly loosing my notes, they're around here somewhere, I can tell you that the 9th position is a check digit used to perform something called a modulo calculation to verify the rest of the numbers. I forget how it goes and my notes are in the 103° garage right now so you'll just have to take my word for it for the time being. The 10th digit is in fact the model year which can be different from the production year. You have a. . .well I really can't see it but shoot me the full vin and I can look into it.

Ah! This may help and it contains no annoying highlighted text.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number#World_Manufacturer_Identifier
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 10:13:49 PM by MrRiden »
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Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 10:15:14 PM »
The VIN looks like WBM036409D638907, to me . :D :D

Which makes the bikes manufacture date of : 08/82 .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline nhmaf

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 10:25:09 PM »
Also, consider that alot of motorcycles, particularly before and shortly after the standard VIN system rolled out, were titled (incorrectly) based upon the date they were sold, because many dealers weren't smart enough to know the difference - or didn't want to sell a "new" motorcycle off the showroom floor that was already last year's model.

Even my 1978 R100/7 is actually titled (was titled in Vermont) as a 1979.   But, it really is a 1978.  However, I couldn't register it in NH as a different date than what was on the erroneous title from Vermont, where the PO had it.  So, my R100 is registered in NH as a 1979, but it really is a 1978.
Trying to fix the bureaucratic nonsense is too hard and ultimately accomplishes nothing but costing $$ on a 34 year old motorcycle that is on its 3rd speedometer.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Air4Life

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 07:33:34 AM »
Here's what it reads:  WB1036409D6386907

Link S.B. site: http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/IDnumbrs.htm

first and second: WB = Geographic Location

third:   1    = Motorcycle
fourth: 0    = Two wheel
Fifth,Sixth,Seventh: 364 = R65
Eighth: 0  =  sequencing number or similar nomenclature

Kinda wish I could make sense of S.Bums notes here:

Ninth:   9  =  Coincidentally enough is a "9"  And here's where I don't understand what S.B. has shown:  "Next comes the 9th character, a check digit, the 4 in the case of the R65, the 9 in the case of the R100RT."  (I'm pretty sure I don't have a r100RT)

Tenth: D  = And again here is where I dont follow his notes: "Next in the VIN is the letter identifying the PRODUCTION, NOT NECESSARILY CALENDAR year, and this is always in 10th position:
Notice the B in 10th position for the R65, and D in 10th position for the R100RT.  That letter is a YEAR code. This system is for U.S. production, that began in 1980.  
Officially, according to the adopted International Standards for official VIN 17 character numbers, the 11th position, in the examples, this is a "6", it is to identify the assembly plant."


(So my calendar year is a D which is considered a 1983 model.  In fact he mentions something about dealers changing them to an "E".  But what on earth is he talking about with regards to r100rt and r65 again?)

=============

Then Milled area of the engine:

82 34 8600  Engine  (Engine Built [around] the 34th week of 1982)

DBM 0980 42 83 (Epa esoteric stuff)

=============
As you indicated Bob Roller, it has a Production Date of 08/1982 based on the VINdecoder:

<http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi>
================

I know I put a lot up here, and I don't blame anyone for dismissing it.  Its just frustrating to me to have someone write something in the only language I can comprehend and still not understand him.

Thanks
sold:
1983 33.8 E. Oil & Trans ?
Batt 10/06/2011
33.2 Head 35.5 (I0.005) ?(E0.009) 35.5
RearT 35.5 Spline 7/12 &
T.O.Bearing
C.U. Paste 5/12

Offline NC Steve

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 08:59:12 AM »
Yes, you're right Bob.
The link above also shows a manufacture date of August 1982.
'16 Triumph T100 Bonneville
'19 Royal Enfield Himalayan
82 R65-Blue II, 84 R65-Britta, 84 R65-Ol' Blue, 88 K75C, 99 R1100R
00 Guzzi Jackal, 89 Mille GT, 03 Cal Stone
07 Honda ST1300

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 09:20:13 AM »
The VIN, that's stamped into the frame on the right side is unusual, never seen anything like that before .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Air4Life

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 09:37:34 AM »
Quote
The VIN, that's stamped into the frame on the right side is unusual, never seen anything like that before .

Bob: Do you mean to suggest that its unusual cause its missing the W?  

Geez, I hope I don't have a stolen one.  More importantly, I hope the real owner doesn't come forward to claim it.   :-/
sold:
1983 33.8 E. Oil & Trans ?
Batt 10/06/2011
33.2 Head 35.5 (I0.005) ?(E0.009) 35.5
RearT 35.5 Spline 7/12 &
T.O.Bearing
C.U. Paste 5/12

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 10:12:38 AM »
No, just for the fact that it's there .

I've got 3 R65's and none of them have the VIN in that location .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 11:46:10 AM »
Quote
...I've got 3 R65's and none of them have the VIN in that location .

I have only two R65s and neither are stamped as in the posted image.

SWAG... maybe the engine case has been replaced and this insures that, for registration and any legal issues, the "collars and cuffs match".
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline nhmaf

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 10:13:10 PM »
The 17 digit VIN for Noirth America bikes is officially on the flimsy foil sticker.   I do know of some people who had lost or damaged said sticker beyond repair, but still had the correct number from the title.  So that they didn't encounter issues upon annual safety inspection, etc. they took an alphanumeric punch set and stamped the VIN into the frame rail in that location, which is where the VIN sticker is supposed to be.  The misalignment of the characters in the stamping would be consistent with a hand made stamping like this.  The VIN sticker is not supposed to be on the swingarm tube, where yours appears to be.   So, at minimum, someone removed the sticker and reattached it to the swingarm.  Maybe the bike had some frame work done or replacement, or perhaps it was stripped and sanded as part of a restoration at some point, and the frame stamping and sticker move to the swingarm was done in a big shop where they did this to make sure the right (2) parts were matched up together again?    could be lots of possible explanations...

I also think that at some time in the past, it may have been possible for someone to write to BMW to get a replacement VIN sticker, with suitable credentials/evidence of ownership  verification, so a bike with a lost or damaged sticker might have it replaced.   I do not believe that this can be done anymore, but in this - and my statement about getting a replacement sticker, may be wrong/incorrect - I haven't personally done that so I am offering this as here-say.

This website claims to offer a history report of the 1983 BMW R65 motorcycle with this VIN, but it will cost you $25 to find out, I guess, and I have no idea how much info it may have - or may not have...
http://www.cyclevin.com/search_vin.php?i=check&vin=WB1036409D6386907
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 10:32:26 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline MrRiden

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2012, 03:38:52 PM »
Air 4 life,
I think your confusion lies in the unclear language of the referenced article. Go back and look at the article again. In it He gives the VIN numbers of two of his motorcycles for example purposes. When the writer says "the 9th character, a check digit, the 4 in the case of the R65, the 9 in the case of the R100RT" He is making reference to the examples only. He is not saying that the 4 designates an R65 Nor is the intent to mean that a 9 equals an R100 He is saying that in the example given, which happens to be his R65 and R100 there happens to be a 4 and a 9 as check digits. He is meerly pointing out which digits are the check digits for the modulo calculation on the rest of the VIN. My R65 has an X for the check digit. Yours will vary and is not indicative of the model of bike. At least I'm pretty sure. Others will justly tar and feather me if I'm in error  ;)
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Offline Air4Life

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2012, 07:30:35 PM »
Perfect, thanks Mr. Riden.  

Speed reading has proven to be an obvious disadvantage to me. :-[

sold:
1983 33.8 E. Oil & Trans ?
Batt 10/06/2011
33.2 Head 35.5 (I0.005) ?(E0.009) 35.5
RearT 35.5 Spline 7/12 &
T.O.Bearing
C.U. Paste 5/12

Offline nhmaf

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Re: V.I.N. and Snowbum
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2012, 08:35:57 PM »
Yes, Mr Riden is correct - I didn't realize that the OP was hung up on the basic math bit of the VIN - don't worry about that part, unless you feel that the VIN may be false/fabricated - in which case one must run the appropriate characters through the algorithm to see what the check character value should come out to be, and compare it.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours