Rear axle bearing and other mysteries?

[montmil]

Kids at school this week shared their virus germs with me. I'm hacking and my nose is running and I'm taking these so-called non-drowsy pills but I feel like extruded doggie matter. If I ramble with this posting, it's not the drugs... it's just me.

I found the mysterious "gravel in my gears". PO said he'd replaced the rear brakes sometime back. Maybe, I couldn't tell. Something must have fallen into the brake drum during reassembly because I found this as I pulled the rear wheel for inspection while mentally crossing my fingers hoping that I'd find nothing seriously wrong.



The little bit of metal was in the brake drum area. Very thin and formed in a shallow "V". The worrisome noise I was hearing was the metal piece moving as the wheel was slowly turned by hand and occasionally being nicked by what appears to be some casting sprue left over from the wheel hub manufacturing process.

You can see the impact point that generated the random rattles. The aluminum "stumps", for lack of a better word, would sometimes catch the metal bit and "wipe" it between the sprue remnant and the final drive casting. Fortunately, no damage to the brake system as the little metal piece was not thick enough to wedge itself into the hub. Caught a break on this deal!

Question... What lubricant specs are there for the final drive gears? I may have the nomenclature incorrect. I'm referring to the large ring gear teeth that mesh with the smaller gear teeth and drives the wheel hub. Visible when the rear wheel is removed. I recall some BMW-brand grease but was hoping there might be a locally available substitute. How much? With the brake shoes nearby, I'm thinking too much may be a bad thing.

I plan to replace the rear axle bearings and oil seals plus what appears to be a thrust bushing of some sort. Problem is, the information on the A&S site seems to contradict itself. Could be the drugs...

Checking the A&S parts pages ( see links below) I'm confused as to what's what. Both pages appear to be like my R65 but the seals and bearings have different part numbers. Any help on this? What am I not seeing?

I'm referencing:
Diagram 36_0145 Cast Rim with Drum Brake Rear,  items #6,7,8 & 8,11,12
http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog/R65(78-85)/catalog_frameset.html

Also:
Diagram 33_0620 Differential Housing Cover,  items #2 & 3
http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog/R65(78-85)/catalog_frameset.html

Prices seem rather steep for the tapered bearings. Does anyone have a substitute bearing you're buying at the local "bearing n' bolt" store?

Also completed the shift lever rehab and fitted the smooth shifter link. Coolness.



Thanks for your help.
My wife's pulling for Junior at Darlington this evening. I'll pull for Kyle, just to taunt her. Bring back the "chrome horn".

[Justin B.]

Your shifter looks MUCH better now!    I think I like your wife and I've never even met her!  Although nobody will ever replace the "ol' man", his offspring will have to do.   Junior be in the top 5!!!  Yaaaaay!!!!!!!!!!

[airhead]

Question... What lubricant specs are there for the final drive gears? I may have the nomenclature incorrect. I'm referring to the large ring gear teeth that mesh with the smaller gear teeth and drives the wheel hub. Visible when the rear wheel is removed. I recall some BMW-brand grease but was hoping there might be a locally available substitute. How much? With the brake shoes nearby, I'm thinking too much may be a bad thing.

Yep, your nomenclature is way off!! LOL
What you are referring to are the rear wheel splines, the splines that transfer the drive of the final drive to the wheel hub.
Not super critical as to what grease is used, though a graphite/moly grease works best. Clean out the old stuff as best you can, and use a small brush or cotton wool bud to apply the new grease. Not too generous, but make sure all the splines are coated, and re-coat at least every 6 months or so.

Bill.....................;-)

[MrRiden]

montmil,
The diagram 36-0145 shows what you will need to refresh the wheel bearings. The other diagram 33-0620 (2&3) shows the (inner) bearing / seal for the drive gear. I don't know if you mean to rebuild the rear drive as well but for the wheel you will need the bearings / seals shown in 36-0145. That said, call your local belt / bearing / chain industrial supply outlet and tell 'em ya need a couple of 40X17X14 (shown on one web site I won't mention as 17X40X14) Also known as 30203A or 30203 tapered bearings and also a couple of 22X40X7 seals(metric all). There is a whole angst about bearing pre-load and spacers that I won't touch.
rich

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I am planning on replacing the bearings and seals in at least my rear wheel while at the Boxerworks Forum rally next weekend.  There will hopefully be some folks there that have done it before.

Shimming is required to get the preload correct.   That is all I can tell you at this point...  I will let you know how it goes if you have not done it by the time I get home on the 21st.


For my rear wheel splines, I use my moly grease that I use for my input splines on the transmission: Honda moly 60, available at most Honda dealerships.

[montmil]

Thanks Bill, Rich and Rob... y'all three each answered a different question I had. I got the hat trick! I should be able to purchase the bearings and seals locally and, hopefully, at a better price. Regards   [smiley=thumbup.gif]

[Justin B.]

Why are you changing the bearings?  Bearings can outlast the bike if maintained so don't automatically assume they are bad because they are "old".  I'm old and, well, never mind...

[montmil]

Why are you changing the bearings?  Bearings can outlast the bike if maintained so don't automatically assume they are bad because they are "old".  I'm old and, well, never mind...

The bearings ARE bad. Sadly neglected and I see a bit of uneveness (that's not really a word, is it?) in the outer race. Hard grease and not much of it in the rollers. After cleaning the rollers, the roughness was easily felt. Greased the bearings and put them back as I need to be able to move the bike around in the shop.

Bought two new bearings and seals at my local Purvis bearing shop this morning. Thanks for the tip, Rich. Competitive pricing. Will replace other bits via BMW dealers on the web.

OK, so I was gonna start a new thread with a new question but Justin has probably gotten lots of folk reading this thread so here's another question...

What's the best "shade tree" way to remove the outer bearing race/s without the BMW Special Kukko Puller? If there's room for a puller to grab the race, I'm thinking there's access for a long drift to gently tap out the old race from the opposite side by working in a circular pattern with small "taps". Comments?

I'm finding more areas on the scooter that  have been neglected. Will likely pull the front wheel bearings for an IRRAN.

So Junior scored a top 5 at Darlington Saturday night and made my wife - and Justin - happy. I picked the anti-christ and he won. We select five drivers before the green flag and keep a database of points all season. She's kicking my butt this year... Grrrrr

[Justin B.]

Glad you are replacing them because they need replacing, then.  I used to buy oddball bearings at Walker Bearing (on Airport Freeway) but have no idea if they are still around or not...  As far as my getting people to read this thread you will find I have no influence over anybody around here so you're on your own...

I believe heat is required to get the races out of the hub and heating hub/freezing race to reinstall - I think.

[montmil]

Glad you are replacing them because they need replacing... I believe heat is required to get the races out of the hub and heating hub/freezing race to reinstall - I think.

Manual does discuss ways to heat the hub and chill the outer race for reinstallation. Got a "hot plate" to use but hope my wife doesn't miss her combo grilled sandwich/waffle iron/wheel hub heater before I finish the job.  

Still wondering about using a drift to remove the old outer race/s. Bob? Rich? Rob? Hello...

[MrRiden]

montmil,
I used a moderate amount of heat on the hub. Just enough to make it a bit too hot to handle comfortably without a glove / rag. You don't need a lot and a typical propane torch from the home supply store should be more than adequate for the job. I'm not sure how you would apply a George Foreman style kitchen appliance to the task but if you do I really want to see the photos! As for the drift to drive the bearing race out I used a metal bar [socket extension, steel rod stock, broom handle]  and tapping evenly around the available edge from behind was able to drive it out without making a bodge of it. For installation I made use of a large wrench socket and scrap wood to drive it evenly home again [warmed up hub / race in freezer over night]. Be careful of the side your not hammering on by resting it on something that won't gaull it up. Make sure everything is clean, clean, clean when installing the new race. I've heard of some using a wee bit of Locktite blue but if the fit is snug you shouldn't need it.
rich

[montmil]

Good tips, Rich. Thanks.

Your practical experience dovetails with my ideas so... what could possibly go wrong?
I'll post a pic of my "hub heater" waffle iron. It's definitely pre-Foreman era.

I used a propane torch to remove the bearing race in the rear brake drums of my VW cabriolet; much as you did with your scooter. Also used the freezer to "shrink" the new races. Had a perfect-sized metric socket that allowed me to tap the race into place without damage. So easy I amazed myself.

We be R65ers and don't need no stinkin' special tools.

Gracias!  Monte