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Author Topic: Is this toast? HELP!  (Read 1866 times)

Offline dogshome

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
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  • Posts: 402
Is this toast? HELP!
« on: February 09, 2022, 09:21:15 AM »
Is this toast or just worn? I'm not sure If I have something wrong or simply this is worn out. Unfortunately, it came with half of the front pinion bearing out and unknown. I can't believe the little needle could cause all this noise. The big one maybe, but its bearing ring looks like this one i.e. worn but (to my eye) not scrap.

https://youtu.be/RenY5UBd9LA
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
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  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 02:13:07 AM »
Looking at the marks on that pinion my feeling is that is probably toast.

But

That would not stop me from shimming it as accurately as I could and then putting 150W oil and a tube of moly in it and taking it for a run. Shonky car yards have been doing this for nearly 100 years now and it doesn't always end in tears.

Given that all you would salvage from that FD is the case, what have you got to lose?


The gearbox in my R860 has been so treated for more than 20,000km due to water damage. The heavy oil shuts it up and I continue riding whilst gathering the bits to build a new gearbox.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline dogshome

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
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  • Posts: 402
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 08:58:32 AM »
Thanks Tony, if it was a new one or low mileage a with guarantee - no brainer send it back. 40 year old daily driver - close enough for jazz.....

Did you turn the sound up on the vid? It does make some horrific noises!


肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 06:21:35 PM »
The noise is horrid. 150w oil will quieten it down.

It might go hang accrue end of your drive, or in 20km or in 20,000km who knows.... By any measure it is stuffed but at least you might get to confirm that the gearing is what you want.

Given clean oil gears running semi immersed will cop a lot of abuse.

They protest by making noise........
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 09:30:13 AM »
The noi


It might go hang accrue end of your drive

It might go bang at the end of your drive.......

God how I hate predictive text!
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline dogshome

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
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  • Posts: 402
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2022, 08:15:09 AM »
I've since done some more work. It is definitely toast!

All the bearings have been out now (apart from the little B) and they are ever so easy to change if you get the heatgun on the case. I've also learned about shimming and what the marks mean. By moving the nose in-out and the backlash up-down, I can see that the pinion isn't leading in to the crown properly. It's too late (due to the wear) and hammering rather than meshing.

How it got that way I don't know. There are some gruesome worn diff pics on the web if you look hard and this isn't that. Either normal wear, impact and broken bits or rough surfaces due to lack of oil. I think the person who left it half in bits had maybe replaced pinion seal or something, got it wrong and then graunched it. Took pinion back out and realised what they had done. The little B doesn't look bad enough to me, but unless I can get it out without destroying it I won't know.

Anyhow, the marks I see in the blue after moving things around are not pretty! High and low dots and patches, no blue on the pinion tooth nose and not a smooth, even contact at all. They are just smacking/hammering each other and not guiding in. I'm not going to fit it as I know what it will be like! Unbearable  :'(


Anyone got a final drive they don't want in the UK?  :lurker:
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O

Offline dogshome

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 402
Re: Is this toast? HELP!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2022, 08:23:09 AM »
P.S. I've had final drive chains go bang and also engines. Neither was pretty!

Pulling lumps of chain and magnesium casting out the the sprocket on my 175 was (very lucky) as nothing exploded or punctured the gearbox. When the 250 locked the back wheel suddenly and produced a scary snake weave, that took a few seconds before I realised, pulled the clutch in and safely stopped.

On a comparatively heavy airhead, reflexes and bones 40 years older and having the clutch make no difference to a seized final drive, I think I'll pass! Going Bang and possibly breaking an axle, driveshaft and having gear oil all over the back wheel at speed is possibly even more unwelcome  :tekst-toppie:
肉(r?u)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
* Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun.:-O