Noisy starter!

[rev_mook]

Hey gang,

The starter in my bike has started to make a loud squealing/ grinding noise when I try and start the machine.  It first happened a few months ago, but it's occurrence is happening more and more frequently.  I made a video this morning with the strange noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SH9rUR1UeM

I'm guessing I need this part, STARTER PINION BMW part No: 12411243402

Any ideas before I tear the starter out?

~M

[montmil]

Prior to buying parts you may not need, pull the starter and check the two bushings found at the starter pinion. They are different sizes with one at the "drive" end and the other at the "commutator" end. Could be these bronze/oilite bushings are worn out.

Either way, consider shopping with John Rayski at EuroMotoelectrics. <http://www.euromotoelectrics.com>

BMW wants $52.78 for the pinion. Same part from EME is $30.00. If all you need is the bushings, there's a tune-up kit from EME for $9.95 that includes both bushing and new motor brushes.

<http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/47.htm>

Let us know what you discover. BTW, did you treat your LS to a new battery?

[Tony Smith]

All you may need is a little lubrication. The traditional method is to "boil" the bushings in strait mineral oil for a while, but this is known to cause domestic friction.
 
Moly grease will extend the service life to nearly the same effect.
 
Of course if the bushings are worn, replace them, but I've been fiddling with Bosch starters for longer than I care to think about and could count on one hand the number of worn out bushes I've seen - mostly I've seen lubrication failure of the bendix closely followed by the motor bushes.

[montmil]

... "boil" the bushings in strait mineral oil for a while, but this is known to cause domestic friction.

So true, Tony. I used my ex's oven to heat up a brake master cylinder body from a Datsun -now Nissan. Brake fluid wasn't completely drained. Friction would be putting it mildly.

Live n' learn -but I still sneak a few parts through the dishwasher for degreasing. A hint, fellas: Add a cup of CLR and run the 'parts washer' through a wash cycle to get rid of that annoying aroma of eau d' ninety-weight.

[Bob_Roller]

I agree with needing lubrication, I've had all 4 Bosch starters on my bikes removed for a cleaning and lubrication .
All of them were dry on lubricant .
Surprisingly, a dry starter can also cause hard starting, the starter draws more power from the battery and when you get to around the 9 volt range, the electronic ignition starts having problems providing a healthy spark to get the engine running .
A good test I was told about to see if the starter needs attention, was charge the battery overnight, then with a voltmeter connected to the battery, operate the starter .
It will take about 30 seconds of starter operation to get the ' top charge  ' off of the battery from charging .
With an additional 45 seconds or so, of starter operation check the voltage, it should not be below 10 volts with the starter running .
This is also assuming that your battery is in good condition as well .

[Tony Smith]

A hint, fellas: Add a cup of CLR and run the 'parts washer' through a wash cycle to get rid of that annoying aroma of eau d' ninety-weight.

Damm! Wish I'd known of,  or thought of that trick myself before last Saturday. I had the final drive completely apart and decided that a trip through the domestic parts washer was just the ticket (herself being "out" at the time. Come dinner time she went to pack up the dishwasher (I cooked) and the kitchen was filled with the mistakable odor of aged EP 90W oil. Hot tongue and cold shoulder ensued.

[Ed Miller]

How do you convert a Datsun to a Nissan?

[montmil]

How do you convert a Datsun to a Nissan?

Good question, Cousin. I understood that Nissan was the car's name everywhere but the USA; which had the Datsun handle stuck on it. 1969 510 2-door sedan. Sprightly performance but think the sheet metal was produced from recycled Prince Albert Tobacco cans. Brand new and less than $1600.00 right off the Dallas dealer's showroom floor.

[montmil]

Typical of us residents here in the R65 Asylum... We done drifted off topic again.  

[Barry]

I understood that Nissan was the car's name everywhere but the USA; which had the Datsun handle stuck on it. 1969 510 2-door sedan. Sprightly performance but think the sheet metal was produced from recycled Prince Albert Tobacco cans. Brand new and less than $1600.00 right off the Dallas dealer's showroom floor.

Datsun in the UK too. I remember buying a new bike in 76 which cost more than a new Datsun Cherry. I think I got the better deal.

[rev_mook]

I've never lived in a home with a domestic parts washer in the kitchen.  One day I'll become an adult and I won't have to clean parts in the bathroom sink.... I think I'll get a pair of laundry machines too!

@montmil, yes!  New battery!  My headlights don't dim at stoplights anymore, which is quite nice.

Anyways, I want to go screw around out in Nevada again over the x-mas break so I figured I would pull my starter apart so I don't have to park on a hill at every stop.  

First thing I noticed is the drive gear is a bit chewed up on the face that engages the flywheel.  I expect this is a bit more than normal wear , as it likes to grind when I try and start.

Starter disassembly was more work than I wanted to do today, but I did it anyways.  The worst part was not knowing exactly how it comes apart, but after I had all the guts on my bench I could test for friction where there shouldn't be.

Everything seemed kinda dry where I thought lube should be; armature bushings, bendix drive, however things moved quite freely with no evidence of binding.  After a good manual cleaning of the whole thing I used Moly paste on the moving parts.

Field coils looked okay, brushes looked okay, armature bushings didn't have excessive play, flywheel teeth look good...

The one thing I couldn't get apart was the solenoid.  The mounting screws were extremely tight.

I got the starter back together and tested it with a old rusty battery charger (which blew something inside).  The solenoid seems to be pushing the pinion out all the way and it didn't catch on fire so back in the bike it goes.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjnWBqhcYYM

I was excited to hear the nice sound of a starting motor, but when it came time for the real world test, all I got was the same grinding sound.

The frequency seems a bit less now tho, it only grinds 7 out of 10 times now instead of 9 out of 10.  I guess it's time for a new starter?