Rock Auto and your R65

[Luca]

The ATE piston thread got me to check back on Rock Auto's stock for R65 parts.

They used to just carry a Wix filter.  Now they have Mahle oil filters (both straight and bendy) for less than $10.  That's half the dealership charge for the same part.  They also carry the Mahle air filter for about $20 instead of about $35

They also stock some of our bulbs and have the BP7ES plugs.  For the especially frugal you could probably also try to source relays, switches, etc. that show up on old VW's and the like.

If you go to the website, be sure to click on "motorcycles" at the top of the catalog before you begin searching.

[montmil]

How about $14.95 for the complete Mahle filter kit? Or perhaps a 5-pack of Enduralst "bendys" for $25.00?

Check out Denver-based John Raski and his Euro Moto Electrics for many Airhead supplies. I'm a well satisfied customer and use his Enduralast filters and components.

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/137.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=137&show=20&page=1

[nhmaf]

The more sources we have around, the better!

[k_enn]

Non-OEM electricals I am generally OK with.  But what about oil fileters?  I hear a number of reports about non-OEM oil filters collapsing.  What has been the experience on the use of after-market oil filters?  Any problems?  Which brands?  

[Barry]

But what about oil filters?I hear a number of reports about non-OEM oil filters collapsing.What has been the experience on the use of after-market oil filters?Any problems?Which brands?  

I've had a straight Hiflo collapse but had also used several of them that didn't  and concluded that the collapse was my fault due to over revving  at very low temperatures.

I have documented evidence that oil filters have been collapsing on Airheads for 35 years and the first to collapse were genuine BMW parts fitted by the dealer.  The 2 part bendy filter is obviously stronger but there have been a few cases where they also collapsed. My judgement is that filters of any reasonable quality will not collapse if the revs are kept down on a cold engine and they have been correctly fitted.

Correctly fitted needs some explanation. I have measured several different makes of filter and found variations in the length of 1mm or so possibly due to the end seals being different sizes. The problem is that if the filter is only a little too long it is put under axial pressure when fitted and that may put a kink in the pleats. The pleats rely on being dead straight for maximum strength so if they get kinked even before being assaulted by high pressure cold oil that would make them predisposed to collapse.   I had one filter that happened to be a two part bendy that was so long an end seal had to be replaced before I was prepared to fit it. It's not the central tube that collapses directly under the pressure of oil but the pressure exerted by the collapsed filter media.

[nhmaf]

The Mahle filters are the OEM ones - or were - and they are still the most often recommended if you can find them.   I got a good deal on a case of Wix filters some time back, but I've had at least one of them 'crush' on me (straight, nonbendy filter), so I only dip into the remaining part of the case when I don't have any Mahles or need an emergency backup.  Some people have good experiences with the Wix ones, though, and, aside from it being crushed when I took it out, I wasn't experiencing any issues on the bike at the time.

What can contribute to collapsing filters is running heavy weight oil (unless you are in the southwest, I don't see any reason to run thicker than 10w40 oil in these machines) in cool/cold conditions, and/or revving the engine alot when the engine is started up cold.   The oil pump on these bikes can easily spike 150 PSI with cold heavy oil in the morning, and some filters are not as forgiving of such abuse.

[Barry]

I'm with nhmaf on using 10w40 and I use it year round. Never in a million years would I dream of using 20W50 in the winter when I'm riding down to -5 Deg C. In fact I've already bought my oil for next winter and it's fully synthetic 5W40. Yes I know but we'll consider it an experiment.  If it manages to all stay inside it will be better for my engine from a cold start. If it doesn't it will go in the car. I'm using 30% synthetic now and it's been fine. If you are going to use 10W40 it's got to be quality oil preferably at least semi synthetic.

[georgesgiralt]

Hi !
I don't understand the cold oil high pressure thing ?
There is a relief valve in the filter housing and another one on the front main bearing. So I bet the pressure is well contained and under harming value.
I think that  cold filter colapsing may be due to other factors... and bad filter is the main culprit IMHO.
P.S. last winter I rode the R65 with -10°C for too short a time for it to heat properly. And this involved a part on an highway where I was forced to speed up. I always run 20W50 mineral oil into it. And she was fine... as was the filter.

[nhmaf]

Georges - the oil is thicker when it is cold, yet the pump outputs the same volume of oil at a given crank rotational speed.  The same volume of thicker oil going through the tiny passageways means more pressure.
The higher pressure can cause the long, unsupported inner tube of the filter (also depending on what it is made of) to be crushed.
The bypass valve is there in the filter housing so that if the filter is plugged up/crushed/no passing any oil, the increase in oil pressure within the filter cannister will open the bypass valve and still permit oil to get to the crank and other critical components.
The engine and seals can handle 100PSI+ pressures, but these oil filters do not always do so.
The "normal"  operating oil pressure on a warm engine is less than 15 PSI, IIRC

[Barry]

Georges,

Sure there is a bypass valve but like any sort of relief valve it can only flow so much oil and therefore it has a pressure drop across it. The colder and thicker the oil the higher that pressure drop will be so it can't get any where near completely eliminating a pressure differential across the filter.  20w50 is like treacle at -5 Deg C and relief valve or not it will create a huge differential pressure across the filter if the engine is over revved.  And as I also said the filter can be predisposed to collapse if the pleats get slightly kinked on installation.

I'm convinced my filter collapsed within 2 or 3 mins from start up. It's along story but when I first got the bike I didn't know that early R45's had the wrong carb settings from new which caused a bad flat spot below 3000 RPM especially from cold. Combine that with the fact that at my exit from work I turn onto a moderate up hill stretch. With the wrong carb settings it wouldn't get out of it's own way below 3000 rpm and what with trying to get out of the way of the other traffic as well I accidentally revved it to at least 4500 RPM. Trust me that will do it on very cold oil.

[georgesgiralt]

Yes, I know that. But what difference it makes if the increased pressure comes from low temperature or from a bent /clogged filter ? The relief valve in the bottom of the filter housing is very weak. So whatever is causing the high pressure, the valve will open. And pressure will fall
And whatever is causing the high pressure, the relief valve will open fully on the main bearing and, thus, cause a dramatic fall in the oil pressure. (given the size of the passageway opened, then)
So I stand on my position... with great pressure... if the filter bends, the pressure build up is not the only cause, IMHO.
(I've seen a BMW Guru powering the crank case with an external pump and gear oil after rebuilding an engine to check for pressure build up and leaks. It is impressive. It shows if one passageway is clogged one way or another before turning the engine ON.... )

[Luca]

Georges, it's a matter of the size of the bypass valve vs. the quantity and pressure of the oil being pumped by the engine.  The valve just can't let enough oil through the bypass at cold temps to significantly reduce the pressure gradient across the filter.  It's like the plumbing in your house.  If you were to turn on all the faucets you would reduce the water pressure at each one, but they would still be flowing plenty of water.  The airhead oil pump is somewhat of an overkill, although that's only a problem when you start winging a cold engine.



Looks like Rock Auto also has a Wix filter kit.  It has a bendy filter, o-ring, and gasket in the photo (but I can't see a shim).  $7.55  I've always been happy with Wix's quality, although nhmaf's experiences I'll make sure to be vigilant with measuring the filter depth if I get some.