R65LS Tire Tubes...looooong valve stems?

[oldbikesrcool]

Hi all, -
My LS tires and wheels need inflation.
Tubeless?
I've heard some do...although the cast rims are not evidently technically identified as MT H2:

MT= motorcycle tapered rim with a 5 degree tapered bead seat.
H2= double hump in the bead seat.

Tubes?
I'm told there are many differing tube brands and models that will not work properly due mostly to the length of the stem. Two models I'm told are acceptable are:

METZELER 110-6514 (325-460X18)
MICHELIN 17-0106 18MF (18B) 325,350,100,110

What do you LS owners use? Stay away from?

 :-/
-Galen

[bruce_launceston]

I usually run tubeless but have a tube in the front at the moment due to a persistant (very) slow leak.
No idea what brand of tube would be in there but I guess it has a standard length valve stem. It is just long enough, I don't have any issues pumping it up or checking the pressure.

My tyre technician checked the LS rim shape and said that they were suitable for tubeless tyres.
I've not had one fall off a rim in 96,000 km so I believe him.

[Barry]

Cast wheels are thicker than spoked rims at the stem hole and the stem nut is quite thick but I doubt if most standard tubes would be a problem. Maybe a very short stem might be an issue.

I would really like to be able to run tubeless. Good thick tubes weigh a couple of pounds so there is weight to be saved and there is no better place to save weight than on the wheels as you get the double benefit of reducing actual weight and inertial weight.

[Justin B.]

They really suck due to the width of the drop center.  I just installed new tire and tube on the Dawg this past Tuesday and found that if I removed the second nut from the stem I at least have enough stem sticking out to screw the cap onto!  The drop center seems to be narrower on the rear  as removing the nut on the front tube provided almost "normal" stem protrusion.

[nhmaf]

This is the commong problem with the LS-specific wheels, as the "rib" around the center is even thicker on these wheels than on the snowflake wheels.  Just be sure to NOT put a nut on the inside (tube side) of the rim - shouldn't be one there anyway.  Only put (1) nut on the stem on the outside of the rim (opposite of the tube side).

I use MEtzler tubes - they are a bit heavier than some other tubes, but seem to wear well, though the natural rubber does seem to have a bit more porosity (read: slow leak over ~ month) than other tubes.   At least, with these tubes and the 1-nut philosophy mentioned above always leaves me with enough stem to work with.

[suecanada]

One nut only...ditto Nhmaf....on the outside. Otherwise headaches big time when trying to pump 'em up! I get "pumped up' the wrong way and turn red!   Life is much better now that that annoyance is gone.

[Bob_Roller]

For anybody that is thinking about looking for an inner tube with a longer valve stem, I contacted the local motorcycle dealer that I have been doing business with for about 12 years, when Sue posted this problem with her LS a few years ago .

His comment was, the valve stems are the same length, there may be slight variations in length, but no one brand is notably longer than another, it's pretty much an industry standard .

[Mike V]

One nut only...ditto Nhmaf....on the outside. Otherwise headaches big time when trying to pump 'em up! I get "pumped up' the wrong way and turn red!Life is much better now that that annoyance is gone.

This has always puzzled me.  I've always used only one stem nut outside the rim with no problems until my latest tire change to S11's.  The vendor who did the installation tells me the tube is not covered under warranty without the nut attached to the inside of the wheel (after questioning him).  I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this setup even though I've had no trouble up to this point - even though I agreed - against my better judgement.  It seems to make more sense to me eliminating the inside nut even though I accepted his advice.  There's always been a lot of discussion regarding this with different opinions.  If only one...why do the tube manufacturers include 2 nuts with new tubes?  As an exterior locknut?  

It does shorten the stem significantly with the interior nut but still accessible to an air nipple, barely.  I also have a stem nut attached loosely outside the wheel.  Did I make the wrong decision?

[nhmaf]

The 2 nuts are supposed to be used to lock each other (outside of the wheel rim), though it seems few people know this.   Putting a nut on the inside of the rim actually puts more stress on the tube where it may press against the corners of the nut.  Also, the nut prevents the tube from slipping slightly under (very) hard acceleration, but as a consequence, it is more prone to tear at the valve stem than if it did slip slightly within the stem hole diameter.

You can use just one nut on the outside of the wheel rim.  under the valve cap.  Technically, the nut is supposed to be screwed up against the valve cap instead of tight against the wheel rim, until/unless you need to fill it up with air - then screw the nut down so it is against the outside of the wheel rim - this prevents the valve stem from pushing down inside the rim and getting lost if your tube is very low in air pressure.  With just the one nut (on the outside) you have enough valve stem to work with with various air filling nozzles. With (2) nuts onthe outside, it can be a challenge - I just use the (1) nut on the outside.

[Barry]

I keep the outside stem nut lightly tightened down on the rim against conventional wisdom but I have a reason and here's the method in my madness:-

Running with tubes is said to be potentially inferior to tubeless tires on safety grounds because in the event of a puncture a tubed tire can deflate more rapidly than a tubeless and that might lead to the rider  becoming intimate with the road surface.

...but will it on our cast wheels. Where is the air going to go ?

The tire beads must seal reasonably well against the rim. In fact if you are running a tube in a tubeless tire the beads should seal perfectly so that only leaves the stem hole.

The stem hole is slightly larger than the valve stem so air could certainly leak out here. What I do is to fit a thin O ring under the stem nut and lightly tighten the stem nut on top of this. I'm not pretending its anything like air tight just trying to increase the odds against rapid deflation and therefore reduce the chance of being tossed off the bike in the event of a puncture.

I figure I need all the help I can get in this respect.

[montmil]

No stems and no nuts on my '81 R65 as I run the Bridgestone Spitfires tubeless. Several years now and the tubeless tires hold air pressure while the 1983 R65's Avons, which have tubes, lose about a pound of air pressure each week. When the Avons wear out, they will be replaced but the tubes will be tossed.

Monte