The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: BMW You ain't what you used to be!  (Read 1883 times)

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« on: July 06, 2016, 01:30:45 AM »
As some are aware my wife recently purchased a G650GS as her retirement present to herself.

I have to say at the outset that I like the bike a lot, albeit that I am aware that those of the model put to hard use have something of a reputation for self-destructing. That said, herself is never going to use it hard and it will probably see her riding career out comfortably (she bought her R65/80 new in 1979 so if she rides the 650GS for the same period of time that will make her 98 years of age).

I am utterly unimpressed with both the general build quality and pre-delivery standard of the bike.

To explain:-
When it arrived I fitted Koubra lowering links to it to drop the rear suspension 1”, in the process of dropping the front suspension by the same amount I discovered that the lower triple-clamp bolts were only finger tight.

That sufficiently alarmed me so that I went over all the other major bolts in the suspension system, in the process discovering that whilst the majority were somewhat over-tightened, some were very loose and in the case of one bolt securing the bracket holding the front brake line – completely stripped, which I repaired with a heli-coil.
Three weeks ago I fitted a Hepco & Becker “enlargement plate” to the rear – I found that all of the bolts securing the rear “ducktail” were over-tightened to the point of being stripped and in one case the hole thread was completely stripped.

Yesterday I adjusted the chain, in the process discovering that the rear axle nut was so tight that I had to slip a 2 metre pipe over a ¾” drive bar & socket and jump on it to get it to release, as I weigh somewhat more than 100kg the torque must have been astronomical (by way of commentary I undo the rear axle bolts on VW Kombi using the same piece of pipe and ¾” drive bar and I generally do not have to be as energetic on them as I had to be on the 650GS’s axle nut, the torque on the VWs is 280 ft/lbs. Chances of undoing the GS’s axle by the side of the road with onboard tools – zero, none, zip and nada.

Mind you the chain adjustment system is 1st class.

Oh, I forgot to mention, when it came back from its 1st service it was short 300ml of oil (and yes I do know the silly way in which oil is measured in these beasts) and had 45psi in the back tyre. Needless to say it has visited the Stealership for the last time.

Also yesterday I fitted a Hepco & Becker C-bow pannier system. In the process I discovered that the factory line workers had left out one of the bolts that secure the rear inner guard to the frame (I was removing those bolts to fit longer ones to mount the C-bow mounting struts). I quickly discovered that the bolt had been omitted because the inner guard was twisted and the hole in the guard did not line up with the tang on the frame. Hot water softened it enough to get the holes to line up and the C-Bow system went on perfectly.

But, I would like 5 minutes alone with no witnesses with the moron in BMW who specified the “torx” fasteners used on the 650GS. I have nothing against the “torx” system in general, other than the irritation of having to own more tools in order to deal with them. I am familiar with the argument that torx gives a greater surface area in contact with the tool and therefore less likelihood of stripping out the head. However the fasteners used by BMW on the 650GS have reduced height heads which means that they present less surface area to engage with the tool than any self-respecting allen headed cap-screw. Add to that situation that all of the blasted things were over-torqued to hell and back and all bore the accursed blue “solid” thread lock. My frustration level was pretty high as it took me 30 minutes to remove the bolts (it should have taken me 3 minutes max).

The C-bows themselves had an annoying fault, they are merely alloy castings dipped in a fairly rubbery (and I hope resilient) plastic. Unfortunately the holes to bolt the C-Bows to the struts were drilled and tapped before the plastic dipping took place. If I didn’t own a sharp knife and a lead and bottoming tap, the job would have stopped right there and the whole lot would have had to go to pay someone to fit them.

Not the standard I was led to expect from Hepco & Becker.

All in all I am unhappy with the build quality and attention to detail, I’d sum up by saying:-

The old airheads we know and love were simple things executed in brilliant engineering. The G650GS is a complex thing with highly suspect engineering decisions combined with crap attention to assembly detail.

And with that I think I have finally crossed the Rubicon and am now officially a “Grumpy old man”.

I am considering buying a R1200GS in a few weeks’ time and I suspect I will be making some salesman’s life a misery if I find the same problems. On the other hand I could buy a good R100GS “bumble-bee” with all the fruit for $8k, spend $4k giving it a complete birthday and be $23k in front. I also suspect I'd be a lot happier with the bumble-bee.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

thrang

  • Guest
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2016, 03:14:05 AM »
I don't think anyone who's had BMW's in the past and bought a new one in the last decade or so would disagree when I say that BMW's quality control has slipped considerably since they became 'mass market.' In the past they built a niche product today they are just another manufacturer, where accountants driven by profit margin have more sway than the engineers when it comes to setting standards and component specifications. As good example of this accountant driven engineering was the the decision to fit a conventional front end to the latest 1200R & RS models rather than the more expensive but better performing when carrying a passenger and luggage latest telelever model.  

Bob_W

  • Guest
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2016, 12:12:21 PM »
Welcome to the world of Italian bikes. I suspect the G is very similar to what used to be the F650, single. If so it is an Aprilla. The F has poor quality rear light socket which is a known problem. The bike is plastic, it requires removing numerous screws to remove the faux tank lid to expose the battery. I could go on all day.
i had an oilhead. It was heavy and required 19 screws removed to even see the battery.
I do like the torx better than the socket heads. They seem to last longer at least to me.
Long live airheads!
Bob The Luddite.

Offline suecanada

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1453
  • Winter time now so we sleep and dream and plan!!
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2016, 12:59:05 PM »
Oh boy, Tony and Bob, you have rustled my interest big time and brought back some memories of my accident in '08 when I was riding a 2 month old '08 F650GS twin. It and I went down on the road in such a spectacular fashion that I was knocked out for 1.5 hrs. and the bike proceeded to keep running. It then seized and through one con rod out onto the road. That heat led to a fire that consumed the motorcycle completely and everything on it. I was thrown 15 feet ahead. Forensics could probably never been able to prove it but I suspect something gave and your mention of the upper triple clamp sure sounds suspicious. On my F650GS twin, the right fork tube was literally torn our of the upper and lower yokes. The rear wheel was torn off to the side. I'll see if I can post a pic.

1983 R65LS - LRB still my favourite!? 1988 Honda NX250, "Toodles Too" and a Suzuki DR650, "Calypso." All stored in the "Brrrmmm Closet".

Online Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9119
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2016, 06:30:51 PM »
I'll add that I've had my '02 R1150R 14 years next month and have only had one minor issue, broken wires for the instrument lighting and right handgrip heater, if had removed the cable ties from around the steering head earlier, I probably could have prevented this from happening .

I'll turn over 60,000 miles, 80,000 km probably in September this year .

So, the quality must still have been with BMW when this bike was assembled, March, '02 .

I'm seriously considering getting another '02 model R1150R, 'Ive seen some with 10,000 miles, 13,000 km on them for around $4000US .
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 06:38:00 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2016, 12:51:40 AM »
Quote
I suspect the G is very similar to what used to be the F650, single.
Long live airheads!
Bob The Luddite.


Bob, it's the same bike tarted up. BUT, it ain't no Aprilia. The engine was a Rotax design and was sold to BMW, Aprilia and KTM. In one of the more irksome side stories the original Werle (NOT Motronic) engine management system on the BMW was vastly inferior to the Weber Marelli fitted to the Aprilia (and I think the KTM), That situation is now addressed and I am pleased to say that the wife's 650GS starts when and how it should, idles properly and gets better than 400km from 15lt of fuel, which is outstanding.
 
The engine is no longer manufactured by Rotax, they are now made in China by Longshon ( or something similar). BMW claim that they are extensivelly checked after unboxing and prior to fitting to a motorcycle, but I am skeptical given my current opinion of BMW's attention to fit and finish detail, my hope is that the checking is done robotically.

Beyond the shared engine, the Aprilia, KTM and BMW share no other components.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2016, 12:53:52 AM »
Sue

my blood ran cold when I read about your accident, the effects it had on you and saw the photos of your bike. <shudder>!
 
Yours however was a twin, wife;s is a one lunger, completely different.

Congrats fro getting back on a bike after a "big one" a lot of people don't.


Tony
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline suecanada

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 1453
  • Winter time now so we sleep and dream and plan!!
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2016, 10:28:35 AM »
Thanks Tony. Sometimes I question my decision as the level of anxiety is so high before a ride that it can't be healthy! :-/

My reason for posting really here was it seemed that maybe BMW's attention to fit and finish could maybe have crossed over the entire lineup to include the twins too. Nuts are nuts and torx is torx so to speak... :)

I had the single once too and just wondered why an oil change had to be so complicated. I found that bike to run fine and was for me just fine for a long tour too. I just thought the twin when it came out in '08 would be better and it was... for a "normal" oil change routine! Nothin' beats a dipstick IMHO though like LRB has! What is the deal about always having to run the engine, warm it up and shut it off then wait 3 minutes then check an oil window way down my your right foot hidden under some engine bulge??!
Take 80 lbs. off LRB and he'd be perfect! OH, and 1" off the height too. ::)
1983 R65LS - LRB still my favourite!? 1988 Honda NX250, "Toodles Too" and a Suzuki DR650, "Calypso." All stored in the "Brrrmmm Closet".

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: BMW You ain't what you used to be!
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2016, 09:53:03 PM »
Quote
Thanks Tony. Sometimes I question my decision as the level of anxiety is so high before a ride that it can't be healthy! :-/

Sue in 1997 I had a "series of unfortunate events" that resulted in me being hit by cars three times in one week. None of the impacts were major in terms of broken bones etc, but some skin was lost and two motorcycles copped a lot of "rash". anyway the last accident was caused by a car failing to give way at an intersection. I found after that last accident that I was having increasing difficulty due to anxiety/stress reaction in riding past a car at an intersection. After fighting a losing battle for a month I stopped riding all together and aside from riding the wife's bike around the block after tune-ups did not ride at all for some years. Was talking to a friend about it one day and they suggested I might have PTSD, went to see a professional who shied away from that diagnosis but suggested we chat about a few things. RESULT, I started riding again.

Quote

I had the single once too and just wondered why an oil change had to be so complicated.


That hasn't changed and the oil level checking procedure is utterly stupid. Even the much maligned English could design an engine that could keep most of its oil in a tank for at least a few days.


I really do like the G650GS, but it reminds me of the Maxwell Smart TV character "Missed it by  t h a t  much chief". with a little extra effort it could have been awesome.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |