Starter Motor not Engaging - Just Relay Clicks

[jonathanrowley]

A few weeks back my R65 began to get harder to start., I noticed it degrade.

Each time I pressed I would have a delay in the Starter engaging, first .1 sec, then .5 sec, then having to press multiple times - at first I thought it was a dirty switch.

This weekend it finally stopped - i.e. pressing the starter button nothing, relay under seat clicks and Volts fine.

Battery seems fine and Charging is strong - reading 12.8V static, with no measured drop when pressed and lights bright and horn all fine.

Just tried a Booster 12V jump unit to see if was a lack of ziggies but no. Just a relay Click.

Red Light on Dash is bright and strong.

Should I assume then that's its the Solenoid and or Starter Motor?

What test next? Thanks in advance.

[donbmw]

Every time I have had the same thing it was a battery. Charge battery check voltage before starting. Keep volt meter on battery and see what your voltage is while starting. Battery may not have any capacity under load.

Don

[jonathanrowley]

Every time I have had the same thing it was a battery. Charge battery check voltage before starting. Keep volt meter on battery and see what your voltage is while starting. Battery may not have any capacity under load.

Don

Thanks Don - Just had a mess and a measure. Voltage reads 12.7 and 12.7 at the Solonoid when the Ignition switch is pressed. But  when it's connected to the Terminal it reads 0 and just clicks?

12.7 is 100% charged from what I recall.

Shorted the Solonoid with a screwdriver and it works fine - Bike turns and Starts so don't think it's the Starter.

When revved Voltage rises to 13.5 so charging fine too.

It's also got the Eurmotoelectrics Charging System so should be in fine condition and been running a treat until this.

Could it be the Starter relay? Why would it click and read 0 Volts when the terminal is on the Solonoid - but read 12.7 when terminal is hanging loose?

Couple of pics.

[Bob_Roller]

I had a similar problem about 35 years ago, pressed the start button a click from the starter relay and no starter operation, no voltage drop either .

What I found, is that the relay clicked when the button was pressed, but the contacts in the switch were not making contact  inside the switch .

Try pressing on the top of the starter relay case after you remove the fuel tank .

Make sure the  transmission is in neutral, you have bypassed the safety interlocks that the bike has if you do this .

You may have to remove the cover on the relay to get the contacts closed manually, if you can't do it with the cover on .

You can adjust the moveable arm in the switch .

[nhmaf]

I think there are still several possible points of failure that could cause symptoms you described.

Maybe you have corroded contacts, either in the relay, its socket, or along the path from battery ->starter->relay, or a loose connection.  Without much current draw you see battery voltage (actually 13.2 would be a fully charged lead-acid battery at rest if all is 100%).   

When the circuit is energized as soon as some current start to flow you lose the voltage/current you need to keep the relay pulled in/engaged.

So, I would start with inspecting and cleaning all the contacts at the starter relay, its socket, etc.  You could try also checking the resistance of the handlebar switch (with battery disconnected first) to see if it is making contact, but a high resistance one - this could also cause the relay to not stay engaged.

The fact that the starter will spin with the solenoid activated indicates you've got a working battery, and that another possible problem (a binding starter nose gear/bendix) is not the problem.

I am not 100% sure - I think that the starter relay power is switched from the same terminal on the ignition switch as the dash lights, but if it is on its own circuit, a corroded terminal at the ignition switch could also be a possible point to inspect.

[wilcom]

Just a relay Click.

Is this click a relay under the tank or the starter solenoid?

You jumped the starter solenoid and proved the starter was ok..... did you hit the solenoid with 12 volts to see if the solenoid would pull up and make the starter do it's thing?

[jonathanrowley]

Thanks all - starter relay under the Tank it was.

I removed it - broke the case off it and refitted to the bike - it wasn't making full contact - I watched the little fecker click, nudge it with a screwdriver and bike started.

It was OK without load, but couldn't muster the Volts once in circuit - cleaned the contacts with sand paper and put it back on and all is well.

Have a new one ordered now and on its way but its back up and running for $0. Pics

[jonathanrowley]

I think there are still several possible points of failure that could cause symptoms you described.

Maybe you have corroded contacts, either in the relay, its socket, or along the path from battery ->starter->relay, or a loose connection.  Without much current draw you see battery voltage (actually 13.2 would be a fully charged lead-acid battery at rest if all is 100%).   

When the circuit is energized as soon as some current start to flow you lose the voltage/current you need to keep the relay pulled in/engaged.

So, I would start with inspecting and cleaning all the contacts at the starter relay, its socket, etc.  You could try also checking the resistance of the handlebar switch (with battery disconnected first) to see if it is making contact, but a high resistance one - this could also cause the relay to not stay engaged.

The fact that the starter will spin with the solenoid activated indicates you've got a working battery, and that another possible problem (a binding starter nose gear/bendix) is not the problem.

I am not 100% sure - I think that the starter relay power is switched from the same terminal on the ignition switch as the dash lights, but if it is on its own circuit, a corroded terminal at the ignition switch could also be a possible point to inspect.

Relay it was - corroded after 37 years - that's allowed !

[mrclubike]

The reason you have voltage at the start terminal on the starter with it disconnected is because you have what is called a voltage drop
voltage checks with out the load (starter disconnected0 have very little meaning

You should have the later wiring so it is very simple

 First  check the connector  above the starter cover
it should have a blue wire and a black wire make sure the connection of the black wire is good visibly and with the volt meter  if good go to #2

#2  check the connection of the stater relay visibly and with a volt meter
you should have battery positive coming in on the red wire and out on the black wire when the stater button is pushed 

From what you have said we know all the rest of the wiring is good

[mrclubike]

Glad you figured it out

By the way you can use a standard relay if you add a diode and change a couple wires around at the relay