What is it with Heidenau tires ?

[georgesgiralt]

Hello !
I have to change my front tire. I bought a new 3.25-18 K34 tube type and a new Michelin tube for it.
Removing the tubeless Metzeler Lasertec V rated tire was quite easy.
I, as usual, put some baby powder (talcum) onto the tube and into the new tire. Then I heavily soaped the tube rim. I put the tire on quite easily for the first rim, then put the tube in (pinched my fingers a little) then put the second rim on. Difficult. Upon inflating, I saw I've pinched the tube. So dismantled and saw the tube is ruined, being punctured on 4 places !
So I decided to install the old tube in. This time I did not use the levers to put the second rim on. Instead I used my 100 kg and a pair of sturdy shoes.
On inflating..... Guess what ? The tube is punctured.
Here I am. So quite exhausted and vastly disappointed by my abilities, I seek for advices and help....
What went wrong ? What did I miss ?

BTW the Michelin tube has a washer on the tube at the valve and two nuts over it. Should I install one nut into the tire , or should I use only one nut outside the rim ?

[Tony Smith]

Try putting just a little air in the tube, it makes it a little less likely to get pinched. I also accept the risk to my fingers and try to work the tube down into the well of the rim before trying to mount the second bead to the rim - use levers as that way you can keep an eye on proceedings, using your weight means that your eyes are (assuming an average height) 5'9" from what you need to be looking at.
 
Generally the tube manufacturer says that you should have one nut on each side of the rim where two nuts are supplied and if only 1 nut supplied, on the outer - I remove all nuts and throw them away on the grounds that it allows just a little "give" in the whole affair to take some creep by tyre or any mistake on my part in getting the thing in the right place on fitting. Lest you be concerned I have been not using valve spigot securing nuts for more than 30 years and on motorbikes much more powerful than any airhead and I have never lost one.
 
On a slightly different topic, but one I bet comes up from time to time. I do not believe that any airhead ever came with a rim profile suitable for tubeless tyres (if someone knows different I'd like to hear from them). Yes I know that some people have been running tubeless tyres for years on snowflake rims I can only say that they have never had the experience of a deflated tyre parting company with the rim.

[Barry]

Getting the valve through the hole in the rim can be tricky and hard on the fingers. There are special tools available to pull the stem through.  Agree with Tony on always inflating the tuber a little. It helps to remove folds and creases that might allow the tube to sit under the tire bead.

[Matt Chapter]

I do not believe that any airhead ever came with a rim profile suitable for tubeless tyres (if someone knows different I'd like to hear from them).

'85 and newer "tri-y" rims.

[Dustybin]

It's possible that him upstairs was keeping you off the roads for a day or two? What ever the reason you're going to be better educated after the third attempt!

[georgesgiralt]

Well ,
I've been told that Heidenau tires are harder than most. So I was advised to heat the tire as much as I can, by either leaving it under the sun or above a heater. Seeing the weather these days, I'll go for the heater. Tomorrow I'll buy a couple of tubes and spend most part of the day heating the tire with my heat gun on "low" setting and try again.
It would be a disgrace to have to bring it to a shop nearby to have it mounted....  And costly too, because it would mean I've ruined 3 tubes...

[Tony Smith]

Ta!
Now, if only they fit my 78 R100RS or 85 R65.
 
I bought a pair of wheel hubs for spoke wheels recently with the intention of building them up for the RS, I am planning to use approved tubeless rims. Much as I do like the look of snowflakes I have always had a yen for wire spoke wheels for it.

[georgesgiralt]

So, I got it this morning.
Used a new Michelin tube, put baby powder on it, put baby powder on the tube, then put baby powder on the tube. It is more slippery than an oiled wrestler. Put air on it. Then put into the tire, put pressure on the tube to place it. Then removed the valve and put tire soap liberally on the tire. I then started to install the tire on the wheel starting opposite of the valve.
The tire walls refuse to go into the bottom of the rim Even with the 100 kg of my body on it. I decide to place the levers in order to avoid pinching the tube.
Working hard, I progress to the valve. It is harder and harder. When I've only 30° left, I decide to use the levers.
Even with them, it is very hard to fight the last part of the tire in place.
Finally, I win.
The judge is ready. 8 bars in the compressor tank. I start inflating; At 3 bar I stop. No leak Hurrah!
It takes 6 bar to get the tire to seal in place. Man, they are hard ! these German tires !
Then I release the pressure, put the valve in, inflate to 2.2 bar and grease the bearings.
Here we go to balance the wheel....
Exhausted .....
I do hope that this tire will last. And I won't fight against it in a long time !
Thanks for your support and advices.
P.S. anyone need a quite new Michelin tube ? 0 km on it ..... Cheap....

[EGRG]

I had to go to 100 psi before my heidenaus popped into place.
They are very hard.
So far they have worked very well.
Even had a rear puncture that caused a slow leak but nothing severe. Noticed the low pressure on a routine check. Took the tire off and had a local Bike shop remove the tube.
Your used tube is a mexican favourite for fixing leaking water pipes.

[georgesgiralt]

Yes they are very hard, my knee still aches !
I took the bike out yesterday and today. Very fun and agile ! It reminds me of her young days when tires where not metric (since then I put 100/90-18 because a BMW guru told me the 90/90 could lead to ruined rims when hitting a pothole.)
A mechanic I know which recently bought an R35 wanted to steal the tire for it's bike ! I think Heidenau will sell a couple of them soon ....

[Matt Chapter]

BMW guru told me the 90/90 could lead to ruined rims when hitting a pothole.)

I hope you aren't using this "guru" for any more advice.  I fail to see how 1 cm of tire width will save the rim from a pothole.  The difference between 100/90 and 90/90 is amazing, and 90/90 is the way to go for sure.  Although someone (Barry perhaps?) has done a study of different tire manufacturers' tire widths if you want to get really precise.

[Barry]

I do have a table of tire width sizes but only for rear tires where the width can be a real issue.

What it generally shows though is that metric tire widths are very close to the rated size where as inch sizes are generally wider than the nominal size and there is much more variability between brands with a 4.00 tire being anything from 106-123mm wide.

So a 100/90 should (provided it's fitted to the correct width of rim) be 100mm wide plus or minus a couple of mm.
My 3.25 measures 92mm so I agree that a 90/90 is the nearest metric equivalent to a 3.25

There is also the question of what can be fitted to any particular rim width. Our front rims are 1.85 The widest tire recommended for a 1.85 is 90/90.  LS front rims are 2.15 and would be Ok with 100/90

Heidenau's own fitment guide recommends a 90/90 for our bikes including the LS.

I have no clue where Georges BMW guru got his ideas from.  Good job Georges didn't listen to him on this ocassion and fitted a 3.25.  No wonder it feels agile by comparison.