Dirty Fuel tank - POR-15 ?

[Bob_Roller]

I was wondering if washing soda and baking soda were one in the same !!

Thanks for clearing that up .

[montmil]

motor oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, fork oil - yes it will need these...right now the front forks squeak when you jounce them...

Spline check and lube - Do I need to plan on removing the trans all the way - or do you think I can get it done with toothbrushes and Popsicle sticks ?

-John

Gear oil also goes in the final drive reservoir and the driveshaft. Add a shop manual, Clymer, Haynes or both, to your grocery list.

Two schools of thought on the tranny spline lube, for sure, John. I might want to slide it back first just to see what the splines look like. If they show any rusty areas or absence of lube... yank the trans and save yourself some money and aggravation further down the road.

Monte

[Adamastor]

Hi!
I think Por-15 is a extreme measure, since you say that your problem might be only dirt and deposits inside the tank, maybe you'll be ok with several Vinegar + Water cleaning sessions.
I had to use POR-15 on my tank recently, but I had a hole on it (rust from inside).

[Johnster]

Again - thanks for the responses.  (I'm posting from work, so I'm trying not to check up here too often....)
A few curiosities.

1) I think I'll try the POR on the Katana fuel tank first...it really IS that bad.  we'll see how that works  - the soda electrolysis sounds really interesting (I AM an electrical engineer by title...)

2) You guys have pretty much stoof by the Clymer manual (which came with the bike).  And while its getting annoying finding out which diagrams are for "my" R65 in every  other vehicle I've owned, the owner consensus was "skip the haynes/clymer, and just get the Factory manual" - it has more and better info disproportionate to the cost increase.
...or in this case, the Oak tech articles ?

I've done a lot of reading through bmwmotorcycle.info(? snowbird's site) and its good...but not asy R65 relevant as I'd like.

Is the Clymer a good (or good enough) manual for what I'm looking at doing ?  (fluids, forks (type II - right ? =)  basic carb/tuning work ?

Thanks guys.  Sorry about no pics...If I get some "before" shots I'll throw them up.

-John

[montmil]

John,

I've got both the Clymer and Haynes manuals. I also download and print many of the Snowbum tech articles and keep them in a binder. Do the same thing with a lot of the Airheads Beemer Club tech articles. Sorta building by own custom shop manual.

The BMW "factory" manual is another good resource among many. Be prepared to read that you must use BMW Special Tool #0000-Unobtanium-$$$ to remove the rear wheel bearings or other such nonsense.

I believe that each resource has something to offer that will help me keep my BMWs on the road as a reasonable, DIY, sport/hobby.

Monte

[Johnster]

Okay, so I did the POR-15 on the Katana gas tank yesterday.  long job and I'm not 100% sure I did it right.  I'll ask the internet gods to forgive me for not taking pictures, but I'll run through what I did.  My bike is a 1997 Suzuki Katana (GSXF) so it has 3 holes in the tank - filler on top, an oval for the petcock and a 1" round hole for the fuel gauge sender.  YMMV.  I did this all my myself with no extra hands required.

Prep
a) put some electrical tape on the front, back and side edges of the gas tank, and/or have a blanket or pad on the ground nearby so you can, at any time during the process, set the tank on the ground and do work, get a frosty beverage, or let it on its end to 'soak'.  any kind of tape will do (electrical tape might leave goo..).  If your tank every leaks 'process chemical' during this evolution, it will get on your pad/blanket/garage floor so keep that in mind.

b) this process took me 4 hours from start to finish (if I would have done it in one sitting).  I did a LOT of rinsing - more than they mentioned.  I also had a hair dryer handy (looks like my ex-girlfriend was good for something =) and all the necessary tools to take the gas cap on and off (my gas tank has the cap attached to a bolted flange.

c) stuff to pre-stage:
      hair dryer (or fan for drying out the tank)
      roll of paper towels - POR-15 says that their chemicals will ruin your paint - it didnt happen to me but I wiped up spills quickly.
      box of nitrile gloves
      duct tape
      tools to install/remove gas cap or various gas tank flanges if you have any
      flashlight/drop light
      pad/blanket to set the tank down on
      a few wood blocks/large books to prop up the tank in various ways during the 'soak and rotate' steps
      garden hose with a local shut-off (lotsa flushing water)
      Oil catch-pan (normally used for changing your oil)
      wear old clothing - you might get this stuff on you if it leaks out of your tank unexpectedly.
 (contd)

[Johnster]

c) doing this during the daylight is nice because it makes it easier to see the inside of the tank.  I never felt close to being 'overtaken by fumes', but I'm not sure I'd want my 4 year old around any of it either.

d) Try to have a good idea if your gas cap is leak proof or not (mine drips through slowly) - you'll want to seal it up well if it isnt, but you'll want it open it up between washes/flushes, so don't close it permanently.

e) POR-15 says to use duct tape - and that worked for my petcock hole, but not for the fuel sender hole - I had to augment the duct tape with the factory bolted flange/cover

f) POR-15 says to let the tank sit vented for 4 days after application before you put gasoline in it.  I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this one too =)

g) no big spots in my driveway from spills/rinsing, so this stuff is probably suburbs safe =)

more thoughts in order:


1) the instructions said to flush the gas tank with clean water first - mine was pretty dry and there were rust flakes that came out when flushed with water.  That being said, I flushed it more than 4 times (with a water hose, draining to my driveway) and I'm not sure I got all the flakes out....I had to apply some old lab-tech wisdom here - if you want to remove 'suspended solids' from a tank/bottle, you need to pour slowly, out the largest hole.  the flakes will usually hang on the surface of the liquid and if you just let the water splash out, the flakes will redeposit themselves on the sides of the tank.  so always try to pour slowly/carefully.

2) then the instructions had you mix ther marine clean with a quart of water and slosh that in the tank for 20 minutes.
   my duct tape over the fuel level sender hole didnt remain leak proof during this step - I wiped the spills up quickly and was safe.  next few steps I used the factory flange in addition to duct tape.

(contd)

[Johnster]

2a) that sloshing made a lot of foam
2b) 20 minutes is a long time to slosh something as large as a fuel tank with a gallon of liquid in it.

3) flush the marine clean out of the tank with lots of water - again, the garden hose was nice.  If you dont have a garden hose, plan on having at least 2 or 3 tankfuls of water available.

4) follow the directions for thier acid-prep step (this was blue liquid from POR-15).  This is a 'soak and rotate' step - another 20 minutes- ie, you want the acid-prep blue stuff to hit every surface in the tank.

5) drain out the acid and dry the tank.  POR makes it clear that the tank needs to be fully dry.  I had mine dry in the hot sun with a hair dryer blowing into the tank for about 15 minutes.  I ended up letting it air dry for another 3 hours (had to take the kids to practice =) just to be sure.

6) pour in the tank sealant and 'soak and rotate'.
6a) POR says to mix the goop to an even consistency.  I shook the crap out of it and it will wasnt consistent- but it was too late at that point (I was already pouring it in)
6b) POR says to drain the unused stuff back into its oringinal (1 pint) container.  yeah- right - It went into my oil pan - much easier than draining a moto-gas tank into a 1 pint can.
6c) this is stuff is about as viscous as 100w oil- ie- it flows slowly.  so slowly that you really do need to soak and rotate for 20 minutes, and...
6d) it takes a long to to drain the excess out of the tank that POR tells you to do.  This is where you set your tank on top of the oil catch-pan and slowly tilt it to drain stuff out.  with different fuel tank geometry, this would be easier to do.
6e) when rotating the gas tank- I found it easy to lie on my back and hold the tank above me - as opposed to cantilevering the tank in front of me for 20 minutes.  feel free to use those blocks/pads to prop up the tank.
6f) don't forget your nitrile gloves during the last step - my fingers are still a little silvery from the sealant =)

(contd)

[Johnster]

7) Wait 4 days - Time will tell if the carbs don't get clogged up (again) after this kinda work.


Thats all - hope this benefits someone.  The R65 is next if it looks like it needs it.  at 4h spent, that electrode idea looks like its worth the effort.

Peace -John

[Bob_Roller]

I used POR 15 on my LS tank, the sliver sealant was a thin as water and mixed up quite quickly .

I drained the excess sealant out of the tank, put it back into it's original container, still have about half a container left, enough to do the Motto Guzzi tank that needs some attention .

I'm wondering if you got an old kit .

[Johnster]

I might have half a container left - but i put it in the catch-can because it was easier.  if I decide to try the POR15 kit again, I'll buy a whole new kit (with the solvents and everything).

I am slightly concerned becuase the tank-sealant was not an even color.- it was a streaky grey/silver..the instructions led me to belive that it would be even after 'mixing'.  I shook the can for more than 5 minutes and as it turned out, i couldnt have mixed it if I wanted to - the top of the can didnt come off (I pried it with a screwdriver multiple times and it just got taller I even tried grabbing the appropriate lip with pliers and pulling upward - nothing
   I ended up poking holes in the side of the can and pouring it that way.
-John

[Adamastor]

I am slightly concerned becuase the tank-sealant was not an even color.- it was a streaky grey/silver..

Mine was also with a not very uniform color, I hope that doesn't affect the final result...
But my main concert is if there is any rest of rust on the part I could not see inside the tank. Will it continue to rust after applying the tank sealant? Hopefully rust was all gone with the rust remover, but....  :-/

Sergio