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Author Topic: Frustrated - My saga continues  (Read 1384 times)

pierre

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Frustrated - My saga continues
« on: July 31, 2009, 08:24:33 PM »
This is the thread that started the saga

Near total power loss
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1244524316/0

UPDATE - I rebuilt the carbs and the bike sounded good and I took it for an around the neighborhood test ride and aside from a little roughness due to the fact that I'm not experienced at balancing the carbs by ear, it was fine.

Earlier this week, I took it in to my mechanic to balance the carbs and get all the fluid changed and a general tune up. Came back with a clean bill of health.
I picked it up and it ran GREAT until about 45 minutes later when I had to ride uphill (I'm in San Francisco) to get home and all the initial power loss/bad running problems returned.  

Back to the drawing board...
Someone mentioned that maybe the mufflers are rusting out on the inside.  The bike sits outside in the west coast air.  Possible/Likely?

What about the valves and things in the air box assembly? Do they ever go bad?

Any other thoughts?

Offline beemer

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 08:53:12 AM »
If it occured when you rode uphill it would suggest fuel starvation, is your tank vented correctly,are you getting enough fuel into the carb bowls,have you a in-line after market fuel filter fitted?just some suggestions for you,good luck,Julian.

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 09:23:29 AM »
Possible tank venting/fuel flow like beemer suggests, or maybe an issue with the float height in the carbs, if it was a steep hill, all the gas would be toward the back of the float bowl, causing the floats to ride higher and turn off the gas to the carbs.   Just another possibility, but start with the simpler things, like fuel tank, first.   Try riding up some big hills, and if the problem recurs, see if pulling over to the side, lossening the fuel cap a bit (listen carefully for hissing sound of air - which would indicate no venting and that a prtial vacuum had built up) and see if problem is resolved.  You could also try a fuel flow test (measure the flow of fuel into a measuring container with fuel lines disconnected from carbs, but still going through the petcock and any in line fuel filters you have.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

pierre

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 05:12:35 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm going for a ride tomorrow to try to recreate the issue.  Cracking the filler cap will be my first move.

I have no inline fuel filter. The inside of the tank is clean and fuel flows freely with the petcock open.  


pierre

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2009, 05:52:26 PM »
UPDATE:

I rode around the neighborhood, (uphill, downhill, flat streets) for an hour with no reoccurance of the symptoms.
 

Offline montmil

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2009, 06:27:28 PM »
Possibly a passing anomaly that may never reoccur. Bit of junk passing through the fuel system. Simple to pop off the float bowls and check for grit, water, or...? Otherwise, ride happily on.   Monte  
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

ambrose78

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 06:16:25 PM »
Is it still running smooth?

pierre

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »
Yes.  I put 30 miles on the dial today with no problems to report.

Going to take it out this weekend for long ride with backup support in hope of getting the symptoms to return.

I was thinking, if it's not fuel/air related, could I be intermittently loosing current to just one cylinder? if so what would the likely causes be?

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 11:07:15 PM »
If it is that intermittent AND electrical, then it is likely a crack in a sparkplug or loose crimp in a wire or crack in a coil or other wire that causes it, and it could be a devil to solve quickly, short of "winging" it and replacing a component or set of components at a time.
Think about what electrical bits that you've replaced with new over the past year first.   But, we don't have evidence yet to point us to electrical source versus fuel source without more data.   I am not saying to start tearing out electrical parts yet, but consider the following 'checklist' of electrical items:

1. New spark plugs?  Replaced when?  Check for visible cracks though internal defects (unlikely, but probability is non-zero) would be invisible.
2.  How old are your plug wires?  Check both ends for good solid connections
3.  Do you have a new coil, or at least a non-OEM "gray" crack-o-matic coil?
4.  Have you taken the ICU off its aluminum bracket/heatsink, cleaned up the surfaces with fine emery cloth, and reapplied heatsink compound between the metal back of the ICU and the aluminum heatsink? (This should be done periodically, ~ 5 years or so depending on climate)
5.  While there could be a sticking advance mechanism in the ignition trigger unit (bean can), I don't think that it would just stick that one time and never again.   But, if we get down to eliminating everything else..    don't go here until there is strong evidence pointing to it, or have completely eliminated everything else first.

Think back about the conditions when the problem happened - was it very hot&humid, rainy, dry, etc.   Had you recently filled up the gas tank from a "different" petrol station?   Had you done anything to tick off any Jamaican witch doctors?
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

pierre

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 11:50:12 PM »
Thanks for that nhmaf, and others.  Lots to consider.  Here are a few answers to you questions.

Prior service - just prior to the first experience of this problem I notice a leaky fuel line where the line meets the carb (right side). To replace the fuel line I had to loosen the air box assemble to get the new line from the left side of the bike to the right carb. To loosen the airbox assembly you pretty much have to take all the rubber hoses and the air valves out of the air box to loosen the nuts.  Everything went back together nicely.

other responses:
coil - non-OEM.
spark plugs - they were replaced last week.  This was done between the first event and the second event.  (I'll check for cracks and bad wires)
spark plug wires - only a few years old
ICU - was replace last year.

As for the witch doctor - I'll just say that I haven't live the life of an angel  ;D



pierre

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Re: Frustrated - My saga continues
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 07:43:54 PM »
not have this thread open ended, here's the final resolution.  
You'll be surprised . . .
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1249863188