The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => Restoration Progress Logs => Topic started by: marcmax on November 17, 2014, 03:39:37 PM

Title: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on November 17, 2014, 03:39:37 PM
So a while ago, due to health issues, to add a sidecar to me R65 (originally an LS). I bought a used Velorex sidecar sight unseen and this what I got. I overall good condition (sn plate indicates 1978) but an ugly couple when paired with the R65.

So the first thing was getting the R65 ready. Mechanically everything that might need to be replaced and/or adjusted has been done within the last 18 months. Only addition was a steering damper.

The 2-1 exhaust was replaced in favor of a quieter, stainless set of oem style exhausts. The 2-1 had a nice rumble to it but would have been uncomfortable for a passenger as it is on the sidecar side.

The Raask rearsets have been replaced with the original controls and a surplus K75 Raask rearset backing plate modified into an attach point for the sidecar frame.

The handlebars are Tomasseli 4 way adjustable and were set low. By adjusting them up and out and back they are in a very comfortable position and provide plenty of turning leverage. While adjusting the bars I took the opportunity to replace the clutch perch with one not having the "choke" lever. One less cable cluttering up the front. Instead I made a set of choke pulls from the original adjuster, a piece of cable housing, bicycle spoke and a valve cap epoxied to the spoke nipple. My nod to my "hot rod" past was the Moon Eyes valve cap.

Fenders and an "S" style fairing painted to match and it is waiting for the sidecar.

The sidecar was stripped down and the frame cleaned of surface rust and painted with a satin black epoxy paint.

The fiberglass body was sanded and painted the same satin black epoxy on the bottom half. The top half was painted a pearl white to match the R65. The fender was painted white with a black back on the attachment side. The front running light and brake/tail light were replaced with LED bulbs and turn indicators added, also using LED bulbs.

The tall, clear windscreen was replaced with a piece of smoke lexan cut and formed to fit. Now it matches the windscreen on the S fairing.

The rubber body to frame mounts were deteriorated to the point that all but one of them crumbled apart when I removed them. I took the one survivor to the little Mom and Pop auto parts store in town. I showed it to the guy at the counter and he said just a minute and disappeared into the back. He came back a few minutes later and said "Here you go, four '56 Chevy motor mounts." They were the exact same thing.

Now if the weather cooperates it is time to connect the two and made all the adjustments to make this rideable.

Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on November 17, 2014, 03:40:53 PM
More Pics
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on November 17, 2014, 03:41:30 PM
Even more
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on November 22, 2014, 06:41:02 PM
Well it is finished. I am having to learn a whole new set of riding skills to use this setup. I connected the sidecar frame on Friday and took it for a test ride to check if the geometry was set correctly. It took me almost 5 hours to adjust, set and measure until I had it to what I felt were the correct settings. The test ride proved it was time well spent.

Next I installed the body to see if the additional weight and aerodynamic drag would require a readjust. It still handles like I expected it to so I will ride it for a few weeks before attempting any changes.

Finally I did all the finishing touches. Installed the windscreen, grab handle, fender and lights. I installed the seat and inside side panels and cut a piece of rubberized shop floor map to fit the footwell.

Only thing left is to install a luggage rack on the sidecar tail. I have an aftermarket luggage rack that I had put on my K75S. It works well but I have never been happy with the way it changes the lines of that bike. I have since found an oem K75 rack and once I have it blasted and powder coated I will replace to aftermarket rack and use it on the sidecar.

I put about 60 miles on the R65 rig today, around town and some isolated secondary roads. Most of the time was around 35-45 mph with a few sections of road up to about 55 mph. I am still skittish on twisty roads but each mile I gain a little more confidence in riding this rig.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: montmil on November 23, 2014, 01:05:44 PM
Beautiful Rig! You're going to get lots of questions anywhere you park that rascal.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: kevin2306 on November 23, 2014, 02:42:42 PM
that does look great, any one been brave enough to hitch a ride yet?

Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on November 24, 2014, 05:07:01 AM
Had a few people want to sit in it but no one has wanted to ride yet. The best was when I took it to the store and the boy who bagged my groceries asked if I would like help taking them to the car. I said sure and when he saw where they were going he broke into an ear to ear grin.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Bob_W on November 24, 2014, 06:04:23 PM
Just wait until you fly the car unexpectedly! Great job. It appears you have not had to add the Earles forks to be able to steer it.
Want to see it in person
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Tony Smith on November 24, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
It appears you have not had to add the Earles forks to be able to steer it.

Earles forks are not a necessity for an outfit, they merely ensure trouble free longevity.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Adrian on November 24, 2014, 11:02:15 PM
Love it - what a great looking outfit - well done  ;D
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Snakeoil on December 06, 2014, 10:15:50 AM

I did not realize that you had a build thread on this new rig. First, I want to say that you did a marvelous job! As I mentioned in the chit-chat thread, I was never wild about this style Velorex. But now that I've decided to pass on the R65 rig I found on CL, I'm going to take a hard look at perhaps putting one of these on either another BMW or my '76 T140V.

I've been doing a lot of research and reading on rigs. So, I want to be clear that I'm a total newbie to these and do not want to portray myself or have my comments be mistake as the voice of experience.

Had a long discussion with Perry Bushong. He said that the tele folks work better than leading link or Earles forks. He makes modified trees to reduce the trail and installs a steering damper. There is another member on another site with an R100 rig built by Perry that uses his trees and he said the rig is a joy to drive.

Another possibility for me is building my own sidecar. So, I'm always looking for chassis photos/info. Can I ask you to post a few more shots of the bare chassis?

Did you make a subframe for this bike? Perry said it is not required. He does something very similar to what you did with a plate mounted to the footpeg. He also uses the top shock mount for the lean adjustment and said there is no real load there so it is fine. The United Sidecar Asso manual and Snowbum's site both say not to use the subframe for any mounting points.

If you have not yet found it, the USA has a website with lots of info and they post their manuals there for free downloading. Here is a link to the manual page.

Would love to see some details on how you attached the chair to the bike and any issues/tricks you might have uncovered.

I need to talk to Perry again to find out what a set of his trees cost. I believe you have to give him a set of trees to modify. So,  unless you want to relegate the bike to permanent tug status, you'll need a spare set of trees to modify. I know Perry has a patent on his tree mod design. He based it on the EML forks, which are also tele forks.

What I'd like to find is a chopper parts outfit that makes raked trees on CNC machines and hopefully at a significantly reduced price. But I'm doubtful I'll find that. I figure a set of trees is going to cost $1000 when you are done. A set of United leading link forks is in that same price range if I remember right.

So, lets have some more details, Adrian. You are leading others into the abyss so you might as well make it a fun ride. ;D

Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on December 06, 2014, 12:35:38 PM
First let me say that I have never built or driven a sidecar rig until this. It is all a learning process for me and this is still not as rideable as I would like.

The mounting point with a plate at the rear footpeg was fashioned after looking at a picture that Scottyintex sent me of how Perry had set up his R65. I just used what I had in a parts bin and modified it to fit rather that fabricate from scratch. So far I have not experienced any front end wobble or difficulty in low speed steering so the move to raked triple trees won't happen unless it becomes necessary.

I did install a steering damper but not one of the large VW Beetle dampers commonly used between the triple trees and the sidecar frame. Instead I installed one in the R65LS factory position from the triple tree to the bike frame. It is 7 position adjustable, works fine at about half adjust. One of our members, ShutterPilot, had to have it installed for the safety inspection to run at the Bonneville Speed Trials. If figured if it was good enough for that it should handle my slow speed needs.

The biggest issue I have had so far is my current tire selection. The chunky, dual sport tires that looked cool and were "ok" for a cafe racer/brat look are totally unexceptable on a tug. It has made for some very scary moments. A set of 18" Metzeler square profile, sidecar specific tires has been ordered and the rig is getting very limited use until they get installed.

I have also learned the benefit of ballast in an unoccupied car. I currently have two 50 lb. bags of sand in the car, one behind the seat and one in front. Definitely makes life a little easier.

When I started on this journey I joined the USCA forum and have read everything I could find before jumping in. It still has been a learning experience and will continue to be for quite a while. The local BMW club has a winter rally in early January each year and I have already signed up to attend. There are at least a dozen members that show up in hacks and I know I will get some valuable insight into what needs to be changed and how to drive one of these things.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Snakeoil on December 07, 2014, 09:01:24 AM
I believe that the reduction in trail is more for easy of steering than anything else. Although I do understand that you can get an induced wobble like a bad shopping cart wheel if the bike and chair are not set up properly or you have a unsettling situation that might induce a wobble. But your damper should solve that.

I'm reassembling a '47 Harley EL right now and the bike has a friction damper. The manual clearly states that the damper is for sidecar use ONLY!!

I've found a Velorex 562, which is what I believe yours is, about 120 miles from the house. It was on a Guzzi previously and the owner bought it to put on a /7 and then ended up buying a R69 Frankenbike with an R100 engine and a Urinal chair. He said it was done right many years ago and is a dream to drive.

When I get the Harley finished, I'll be out of projects. So, I just might build a rig from scratch. Good winter therapy.

Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Adrian on December 09, 2014, 10:45:27 PM
Where oh where can I get those neat little choke levers you have installed - thanks
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: marcmax on December 10, 2014, 06:41:00 AM
The choke pulls are home made from the oem adjuster, a stainless steel bicycle spoke, a tire valve cap with a spoke nipple epoxied into it and small piece of aluminum threaded spacer on the choke end.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Adrian on December 10, 2014, 09:18:08 PM
Okay thanks for that - I've downloaded the picture - maybe I can replicate it -  ;)
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: montmil on December 11, 2014, 09:15:45 AM
The Bing choke pulls are fairly easy to fabricate in a home workshop. I have them on my R100S. They eliminate the handlebar or engine-mounted lever, cables and springs. BMW offers a "blanking" cap that can be used to fill the vacant spot created by the removal of the handlebar-mounted enrichener lever.

For a visual on what's what...!/32mm-&-40mm-Bing-Carburetor-Choke-Pulls/p/13179793/category=3027367

The pulls on my bike do not have the large black knobs. Instead, a small wire loop captures a rubber grommet. Simple by design. I've always thought the large plastic "CHOKE" knob is a bit over the top.
Title: Re: R65 sidecar
Post by: Adrian on December 12, 2014, 11:43:06 PM
Thanks for that Montmil  ;)