The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => Restoration Progress Logs => Topic started by: steve hawkins on February 11, 2014, 01:30:43 PM
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Its my turn,
Not a restoration as such and not an R65, but just a log of bits that have changed or are going to change on my R100. A running restoration.
Here she is with her new peanut rocker covers, engine top cover and pod filters (may I burn in hell!)
Toodles
Rev Light
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Well I'll be burning right along with you. At least it will beat this damn cold winter. :)
How do you like the top cover? I have been contemplating buying one from a fellow here in the states. Is it fiberglass and if so do you plan to try and look more like the engine castings? I think it was talked about one time using a high build primer from a distance to get that cast aluminum look. Either way I like the way it cleans up the former airbox area.
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The top cover I bought from Motorworks is quite a stout, heavy plastic item with a textured finish. so I just sprayed some primer over it before going with a darker silver - I think it is a Ford car colour. Aluminium engine paint was too bright.
It would be impossible to match as my engine casings are actually a different colour to my gearbox casing, and both are pretty grubby. On top of that, there is a dusting of rust particles coming off the PFM cast iron disks up front that keeps the front cover and the cylinders a different colour again.....So close was good enough. I do not want to paint the engine.
It looks like I have a summer scrubbing the engine with scotch bright ahead of my as I do not want to strip it. Although the engine has 90,000 miles on it, so I should be looking at the heads/valves at some point.
As I have never had the headers off this bike, I will have to cut the exhaust nuts off first.
Cheers
Rev. Light
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As I have never had the headers off this bike, I will have to cut the exhaust nuts off first.
Don't bet on that. I started pulling the wife's R65/80 down on the weekend and I can assure you that the headers have not been off that since 1987 when the R80 engine went in.
to be honest I expected to have to cut the nuts, but I spent 5 days soaking them with home made penetrating oil (ATF and Acetone 50~50 mix) and to my great surprise and pleasure I got both of them off without damaging the threads.
So, never say never.
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That bike is looking more like an R90S with every change, Steve!
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This weekend it is losing the nose fairing and RS bars and gain some 'Renthal' type trail bars. Going to take me a week or so to get this running again.
I am going to be trying the R65 yokes and since there will be a change of geometry, I might be reversing the forks and putting the Brembo's on the front to recover the lost trail, from the addition of more offset. But I think the R65 top yoke might actually mean that I will also be shortening the fork, which should increase the trail again. As it is thicker and therefore the fork will be held higher. We will see. there also might be all sorts of alignment issues when we get the brakes and wheel back on.
It's a bit of a bugger to do. And it is not certain what the result will be for my efforts. I am only doing it because I have the parts.
What is for certain, I will be keeping and not modifying any parts removed, as I might need to re-instate everything back to standard. :-?
Cheers
rev Light
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Actually I will probably be going from a sedate 3.5 inches of trail, it is after all a tourer, down to just over 2.2 inches of trail - which is really the lower limit. If I reverse the forks to dial in more trail, I will probably add too much back in - i.e. overcompensate.
The offset difference between the two yokes about 18mm (less than an inch).
Does anyone have a reliable value for the trail of an R65? I had assumed that it would be slightly less that an R80/100 as standard as it is more lively but this would be wrong. As the offset of R65 triple tree is only 18 mm more than the R100 (56mm as opposed to 38mm), whereas the distance of the leading axle of the R100 is about 30mm between the middle of the fork to the middle of the hole for the axle, which makes the R100 have more offset in total (eg. 38+30=68mm). Which means in real terms the R100 has 12mm more offset than an R65 ???? The rule is, more offset, less trail, when the rake remains the same.
I mentioned that I will be shortening the fork, the difference in thick ness of the top yokes where it matters is 6mm approximately. The R100 being 4mm and the R65 being 10 mm. This will further reduce the trail, not increase it. However I know I have heavy duty springs in the front, so I am assuming my ride height is already above normal, and therefore so is my trail
Slightly nervous here, might create a monster. If it all goes to wrong I can always replace the fork legs with R65 ones.
Confused
Rev. light
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I am going to be trying the R65 yokes and since there will be a change of geometry, I might be reversing the forks and putting the Brembo's on the front to recover the lost trail, from the addition of more offset.
Steve I applaud the decision to replace the horrid standard piece of stamped plate that masquerades as a top yoke on R100s. The single biggest cause of sudden tank slappers is movement that develops around the top stem nut. This aluminum number frets away at the yoke and eventually develops enough movement to cause tank slappers. To cure you have to replace both yoke and nut.
Enter Luftmeister who make (or at least made) a cast alloy top yoke to suit the R100. Cunningly shaped so as the effective fork length remains the same, this little number ends forever the dreaded R100 wobbles (unless of course you fit oversized tyres or just tyre brand/profiles that the big darling does not like). It is my observation that the ATE caliper front end R100 are slightly more prone to this nonsense than the Brembo front end ones.
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Yes, and it would have been far easier and probably cheaper in the long run to go for such a unit.
However, some of the pictures I have seen of such items, seem to show that they are the same width as the steel item in places that it is replacing. This is of concern to me, as I consider that 4mm of steel is far stronger than 4 mm of alloy. Where as with the R65 unit 4mm of steel is being replaced by 10mm of alloy where it matters and has a webbed construction elsewhere.
Its a gut feeling rather than coming up with any numbers.
Typical of such a change, is that, one change, forces another and another. I am looking at headlight ears again, as the distance between the top and bottom yoke is slightly different with the new set-up and so I might have to lose those big black ears....Which means that I have to find a set of ears that can cope with the ignition barrel in the headlight, or change the headlight, which means I have to re-wire the bike.....And it goes on.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Typical of such a change, is that, one change, forces another and another... Which means that I have to find a set of ears that can cope with the ignition barrel in the headlight, or change the headlight, which means I have to re-wire the bike.....And it goes on.
Similar situation on my minimalist R100S.
These headlight brackets are available from many accessory dealers, chromed or black, and very economical.
I have cut off a portion of the "key side" bracket and welded on a large washer that was sized and massaged to fit. Relatively simple chore and works quite well.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520Ignition%2FR100Skey_zps861e4f8b.jpg&hash=0bdb8fb9fade28de794bc8e479e731336707b4b1) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/montmil/media/BMW%20Ignition/R100Skey_zps861e4f8b.jpg.html)
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In the interests of simplicity, I am going to try and keep the original headlight and brackets for now. Also the indicators in their current setup. They are currently loose, i.e. the distance between the bottom of the top yoke and the top of the bottom yoke is now longer by a few mm. I will have to put some packing under the indicator loops/brackets to make everything a tight fit when I clamp it all down.
It is food for thought. I had intended in fitting a different type of indicator - down the line, in a different place. I also wanted to simplify the front like I did with my old R65 with the same Headlight brackets I used on the r65. But having all the wiring in the headlight along with the ignition is a pain. I had not envisioned having to rewire the bike at this stage. I wonder if I could relocated the ignition barrel within the headlight? That would help.
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Monte, you have to laugh. I read your email and responded with the above. But the picture had not loaded, until I finished my response! I have a set of those brackets kicking around somewhere. I have to say they are not my favorites style wise. But it does the job - there is no denying it.
Let me have a look into doing a similar in the longer term.
Cheers
Rev. Light
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I am wondering if the Toaster Tan top brace would work for Steve's application? Granted, it is a chunk of money, but it sure does look pretty. I am contemplating taking the plunge with it on fitting up my R100/7 sidecar rig to give me a more rigid steering system.
http://www.pbase.com/toastertan/top_braces
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However, some of the pictures I have seen of such items, seem to show that they are the same width as the steel item in places that it is replacing. This is of concern to me, as I consider that 4mm of steel is far stronger than 4 mm of alloy.
That does not accord with my memory. I will remove the damper adjuster and "crash pad" over the weekend and try and take a photo or two for you.
However I must add that if in fact it is only as thick at the steel item it replaced (and I am sure that it is not) then I have a quarter of a million kilometers covered in the last 20 odd years that says it is adequate to the task.
Anyway, it is a dry argument until I get a photo for you to look at and even drier if the bloody thing is no longer available.
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This is a case of me being stubborn and not shelling out the proper dosh in the first place for the proper piece of kit. You can see that Monte has one of these aftermarket top braces fitted to his R100 and I am sure it works just fine.
I will resolve these little issues, try the bike out. Like it or loath it, and report back. Then go buy the right piece of kit o change the fork legs....
Humour me :o
Cheers
Rev. Light
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Actually, I am calling a halt to this for the time being. There are too many changes that I am having to carry out. I need to get my ducks properly lined up. And do a bit more preparatory work done.
I need to source another set of headlight ears, that can be modified to take the R100 headlight with ignition. Or move the ignition.
I need to find another place to mount the indicators - which I want to change anyway.
I need to extend the wiring for the new handlebars.
I need to sort out how to mount the instruments.
I need to polish up the top and bottom yokes before I fit them.
Did I mention that it was sunny this weekend for the first time this year - with temps above 18 deg Celcius. And my bike was in bits all over the garage floor. Hurumph!
I will get back to this......In a month or two.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Bike is back together with wiring extended for the new wider handlebars.
Extending the wiring was a bot of a chore, especially when it came to reconnecting them inside the headlight. The current (white hardback)Haynes Manual only shows the American wiring diagram for post 81 R100. So I had trouble getting the headlight switching working again. Fortunately my brother had a copy of the earlier (green softback) version which showed the correct wiring...mostly.
I had quite a few issues with the forks, or at least securing them to the top toke. They were not correct, and I had two top washers missing.
I am enjoying the new riding experience.
Nose fairing now removed.
Time to remove the bearings and get the R65 yokes polished up.
I am considering moving the ignition from the headlight, so I can use my favorite alloy headlight ears. lots of things to get sorted.
Cheers
Rev. light
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Actually,
Looking at Monte's headlight ears, I wonder if you could enlarge the middle hole and cut off the end one. It looks like the head light is mounted further 'out' than standard. I wonder if it would take a 25mm hole.......
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We are still soldiering on with this project.
I have now sorted the headlight ears and fitted different Indicators on them. Thanks for the idea Monte.
I have fitted a shorter seat and sub-frame, along with alloy mudguards/fenders, along with new lighting.
Still at the dry build stage - i.e. trying thing out till I get the look that I am after.
Here's a picture.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Looks good Steve !
I think that you've got the headlight positioned pretty nicely.
Can you show a closer-up pic of the handlebar/top brace area? I may have to make some mods to my R100 sidecar rig and am trolling about for different ideas..
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The top brace is still R100 steel plate, currently. I have been doing all the jobs around it to ensure that if and when I make the change to an R65 set of yokes, it will be a quick swap out and not a week's work - having done the week's work prior...... ;)
Something about lining all me ducks up....
Rev Light
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Just removed the knee pads on the tank.
I am in the process of making good the paint, as it was blue underneath!
The knee pads were an absolute sod to get off.
A few more coats of paint and I should be able to flat it all back and loads it completely.
Tank looks like a boiled sweet now!
Cheers
Rev Light
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here goes another picture or two
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I do like the indicators. They are pretty classic but a bit trendier with a chrome back. My Iž Jupiter 4 has similar ones but with plastic back.
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They are Lucas 'knock-offs' like you would fit to a Brit bike of the 70's.
I preferred them the rectangle BMW ones. Its a styling exercise.
Cheers
Rev Light
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Steve, where did you get your seat from?
The shorter rear frame on yours looks exactly the same as what I have done to my rear subframe.
I did buy 2m of recycled leather which looks great, with the possibility of creating my own seat. But it's not waterproof and buying one seems easier when you have a thousand jobs to do already.
The bike looks great, and thanks for the brake pics.
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The seat is from a firm called Vonzeti, from down Devon way.
Not sure they do an R65 specific one.
They are also very expensive. It was a treat to myself. You could do it cheaper if you had a local specialist cover the saddle for you.
They are made to order and can take weeks longer than the 21 days they normally quote....Don't ask me how I know :-?
Yes, leather is not waterproof, you would be better off with vinyl. But it depends on what you are using the bike for.
It is important to get it right.
Rev Light